Steering response after mud tires.

[volver]

My stock tires are ****. I think they are actually worse then stock. They are stock size but they balloon out on the sides. They roll side to side on the rim when corning hard. And if you corner to hard they cause massive understeer.

I am thinking about switching to a 17 by 8 inch rim with 4.5 inches of back spacing. Warped in a mud tire with 33 inch diameter, 9 inches of tread, and a rim width range of 7.5-9 inches.

Asking anyone who has changed to a similar setup. How were the handling characteristics affected by the larger tires and rims with back spacing?

 

[JDraper]

Well, mud tires aren't designed for cornering...they're designed to have traction in the mud. Your handling on the pavement will be compromised for the increase in off road traction.

 

[sport97]

Also, your signature states you only have TT, with shackles and f150 springs. Fitting 33s will most likely require significant trimming. You should be able to fit a 32 inch tire under it though.

 

[volver]

Body lifts look like crap, plus they will raise my center of gravity. So will be trimming the crap out of the fenders.

I remember 410Fortune saying something about how he was impressed by the performance of his bronco after he put on offroad tires and rims with back spacing. But maybe it wasn't him.

 

[soon2bsick]

Body lifts look like crap

hmm... to each his own I guess...


To try to signify what performance you'll get out of a tire just by branding it a Mud tire is like asking what you'll get out of an explorer.. without asking what kind of explorer.

There's all different types of mud tires, some have only off road quality, some can have a little of both worlds. But if a super aggressive tire is what you're after you're going to have a lot of road pull and tighter steering (more so than we both already do with AWD).

If you settle somewhere in the middle like an all terrain you will probably get what you're looking for.

 

[volver]

I was looking for more of a first hand story.

"i just changed from stock fire stone tires to Kumho KL71's on 15 inch rims. Feels like i am driving a dead elephant now, but man do the grip in the dirt"

-OR-

I got 32" STT's on 17 inch rims with 4.5 inches back spacing. The back spacing makes cornering a breeze."

 

[Mbrooks420]

Been driving on mudders for years. I like them, and drive around pretty spirited. I also don't run a front sway bar, and that doesn't bother me, so you might have to take what i say with a grain of salt. Going from a 235 to a 33 of any type tire is going to take away from the cornering, and if you aren't happy with it now, the mudders won't improve it. Unless you go considerably wider. 33x9.5's are pretty rare, aren't they? I thought anything above a 31 was normally a minimum of 10.5 inches wide.

 

[Ol' Blue]

They are stock size but they balloon out on the sides. They roll side to side on the rim when corning hard. And if you corner to hard they cause massive understeer.

Well, that kinda sounds like you either corner really hard or you may have low pressure in your tires. Average cornering should NOT allow your tires to wobble back and forth on the rim. Maybe try a wider rim on the same tire. That might cure the bubble tire. Just my .02

Unless you, like alot of us, need to justify buying larger tires to the wife. In that case, I got your back.

Personally, I have driven on 31's for 2.5 years now and it really depends on a lot of factors. How deep is the tread and how rigid is it. Some tires are soft. Some are hard. Wish I could give you a more definite answer.
Good Luck though!

 

[JDraper]

I went from stock 235/75-15 tires to 33's along with a lift, and yes, my handling did suffer on the highway, but I expected it to. I ran a 5.5" superlift kit with no rear swaybar and 33 x 10.5-15 Kuhmo M/T's on factory rims. Was it driveable? Yes. Could I corner like I did before? No, not even close. Did it wallow some in the corners? Yes.

Your M/T's will have a higher sidewall height and a deeper tread than your stock tires. These will introduce more sway into the system.

Stock:

Not so stock:

 

[volver]

i don't expect the explorer to handle like a Lotus. lol
I understand that larger tires on stock rims will cause handling issues.


But i was hoping that in my special circumstance that a change in tires and rims would actually give me better handling.

My current tires are 235x70R15 on a 15 by 7 inch rim with no back spacing. (stock)

The tires were cheap, like 45 dollars cheap. Got them 1.5 years ago. Pressure rating in 35 psi. At 35 psi the the side wall balloons out wider than the rim and tread. You can see small scuff makes on the side walls were the wall has touched the ground, either when hitting a bump or when turning. ( not aggressively )

I boosted the pressure up to 45 Psi. This helps handling and fuel economy greatly but both are still reduced compared to the previous tires. ( different brand)



I was going to switch to a retread tire 285x70R17 on a 17 by 8 inch rim with 4.5 inches back spacing. Tire will fit this rim well. The wider tire and rim should stop the tire from rolling side to side. The max pressure is 65 psi.

I think they will handle better.

 

[JDraper]

You're going from a 6.5" tall sidewall to a 7.8" tall sidewall. Unless its multiple plies thicker, it will most likely have more lateral movement.

65 psi rating on the tire won't mean squat unless you're carrying a heckuva load. You run them at that pressure and your tire life, ride and control of the vehicle will be severely compromised.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Your wheels now have a 3.75 backspacing, (I think, but its definitely not zero). The pressure on those prob wouldn't be near 65psi on an Explorer.

 

[volver]

I think of a tire and rim as a kid on a swing set. You push the kid perpendicular to the way they are supposed to move. If the chains are close together at the top it would be easy to move them side to side. (7 inch rim). If the chains were spread far apart it would be hard to move them side to side. (8 inch rim)

Pressure would be like the weight of the kid. A fat kid (high pressure) would be harder to swing. The tire is going to try to hold its shape. The pressure is going to push in all directions. If the tire is safe to 65 psi it should be harder than my current tires that i am pushing 10 pounds over max on. Thus stopping the tendency of trying to roll off the rim. Should give better handling.



I couldn't find the numbers for the stock rim. Does someone have a link?



If the stocks have 3.75 back spacing then I will change to a 17x9 with 5 inches of back spacing.

 

[volver]

problem is that i like off roading and i like road racing. but i only have one car.

 

[Mbrooks420]

You can make up any type of analogy you want. Doesn't mean the physics will back it up. If you into road racing at all, I wouldn't lift it and add mud tires Having one car is really gonna suck when you flip it on it's lid. At 65psi the tread is going to bulge out under the weight of the Ex. It's also going to wear like crap in the center. It's also going to ride even worse than the Explorer does now. ( I know thats hard to imagine, but ir CAN ride worse)

 

[JDraper]

I think of a tire and rim as a kid on a swing set. You push the kid perpendicular to the way they are supposed to move. If the chains are close together at the top it would be easy to move them side to side. (7 inch rim). If the chains were spread far apart it would be hard to move them side to side. (8 inch rim)

Pressure would be like the weight of the kid. A fat kid (high pressure) would be harder to swing. The tire is going to try to hold its shape. The pressure is going to push in all directions. If the tire is safe to 65 psi it should be harder than my current tires that i am pushing 10 pounds over max on. Thus stopping the tendency of trying to roll off the rim. Should give better handling.



I couldn't find the numbers for the stock rim. Does someone have a link?



If the stocks have 3.75 back spacing then I will change to a 17x9 with 5 inches of back spacing.

You're off base with your assumption. Yes, more pressure will make the tire stiffer, but it will also bulge out the center of the tread, reducing your contact area, reducing traction and reducing the handling capability of the vehicle.

Every tire width is designed for a certain width rim. Go to narrow and you do get the pendulum effect, go to wide and you can pull the tire off the bead or damage the sidewalls by making them bow too much. Your stock rims are most likely designed for a 235 wide tire (give or take a little).

If you go with more backspacing, you have to worry about being able to turn the vehicle without rubbing the tires on the swaybar or the fenderwells.

Do some research on here. There is a chart up in the tire section that describes tire and rim fitments in different combos for the Explorers.

 

[gmanpaint]

 

[my98nnj]

The tires were cheap, like 45 dollars cheap. Got them 1.5 years ago. Pressure rating in 35 psi. At 35 psi the the side wall balloons out wider than the rim and tread. You can see small scuff makes on the side walls were the wall has touched the ground, either when hitting a bump or when turning. ( not aggressively )

Suprised nobody picked this up yet.
What load rating are your el-cheap-o tires rated?

By what you say is happening, and the $45/tire one can conclude you have an incorrect load rated tire on your truck. Makes sense that their rolling over.

You should be able to get an all terrain tire that can perform well for you under either of the driving conditions you like. Make sure you select the correct load rating and the side wall roll woun't happen.

 

[volver]

hmm. What changes about a tire with an increase in load capacity. The tires I was looking at are 3245lbs

 

[JDraper]

more plies in the tread and sidewall