stumped on why mountaineer wont start

[bergz0]

I have a 98 mountaineer with the 4.0 sohc engine and it needed a fuel pump since all it would do is crank and crank and no start, replaced the fuel pump and now the gauge and pump work (can hear it prime when i turn the key) but the mountaineer wont even crank. i checked all fuses and relays, swapped relays with other ones to confirm they work. i can hear the starter solenoid faintly click when i turn the key but i get nothing. i pulled the starter relay out of the fuse box under the hood and jumped where pin #30 on the relay would be with pin #87 on the relay and the mountaineer starts right up. i swapped that starter relay out with the horn relay and others to make sure it worked and it does. I also replaced the relay under the dash that clicked when i tried to start it. I am totally stumped. What do you guys think it could be? Thanks in advance!

 

[koda2000]

Had the same problem with my '97 Sport 4.0L SOHC about 2 weeks ago. Replaced the original 1997 fuel pump, could hear it prime, but no start. Wiggled the crank sensor wires and it started. Removed the crank sensor, tested it with my VOM and a magnet and it seemed to function okay. I Cleaned the grease off it, sanded the crap off the reluctor wheel, then reinstalled the sensor, spacing it with a business card.

It's been over 2 weeks now and it's been starting fine ever since. Whether the fuel pump was bad I don't know for sure, but after 260,000+ miles on the original OE pump, I'm glad I changed it.

 

[bergz0]

Thanks for the info. I just put a new crank sensor in it. You think the crank sensor will cause a no crank issue?

 

[koda2000]

Thanks for the info. I just put a new crank sensor in it. You think the crank sensor will cause a no crank issue?

Absolutely. It's what tells the coil(s) when to fire. No spark, not start. Could be the sensor, but it's a pretty simple device. Could be wiring or connector related or even a bad coil or clogged fuel filter. You need to do the diagnostic testing to figure out where the problem is. Don't just start throwing parts at it and wasting money.

To be clear, when you say "no crank" you mean the engine spins but no start, right? People use the term "no crank" and I'm never quite sure what they mean.

I took an old spark plug and attached one of the plug wires to it while grounding it to the battery with my jumper cable. That's how I determined I had zero spark while trying to start. After playing with the crank sensor wires I suddenly had spark.

 

[bergz0]

Turn the key and nothing happens

 

[bergz0]

Engine doesn't spin. Fuel pump primes. I get fuel to the fuel rail.

 

[koda2000]

If the engine does nothing when you turn the key, that's a whole different issue.

Battery ok?
Tried starting in neutral?
Is it a manual or automatic transmission?
Is the starter motor ok?
Do you hear the starter solenoid click?
Tried swapping the starter relay?
Battery cables good, clean and tight?

Lots of stuff to start checking.

 

[bergz0]

Yes everything you mentioned I did and is okay. Could it be a PATS issue?

 

[koda2000]

Yes everything you mentioned I did and is okay. Could it be a PATS issue?

PATS issue would prevent starting as it turns off the fuel injectors, but the engine would still spin.

Either power isn't making it to the starter or the starter is no good. That's where a VOM (even a cheap one) would come in handy. Even a test light would tell you something, but is not an accurate test.

 

[bergz0]

I can pull the starter relay out and jump the pins and it will start up with the key in the on position. The starter relay is new

 

[1998Exp]

By jumping pins 30 and 87 you are bypassing the relay function entirely.Since you apparently verified that the relay is good, it sounds like its coil is not getting power when you turn the key to the start position. A few possibilities:
1) Transmission range sensor (what used to be called the neutral switch) is defective, misadjusted, or disconnected.
2) Defective ignition switch or its wiring
3) Blown fuse (#24 in the box on the left of the instrument panel)

I do not see any PCM input into the starter circuit in my '98 EVTM, so it's not affected by PATS. Needless to say, the starter circuit is not connected to the crank sensor in any way.

I have a 98 mountaineer with the 4.0 sohc engine and it needed a fuel pump since all it would do is crank and crank and no start, replaced the fuel pump and now the gauge and pump work (can hear it prime when i turn the key) but the mountaineer wont even crank. i checked all fuses and relays, swapped relays with other ones to confirm they work. i can hear the starter solenoid faintly click when i turn the key but i get nothing. i pulled the starter relay out of the fuse box under the hood and jumped where pin #30 on the relay would be with pin #87 on the relay and the mountaineer starts right up. i swapped that starter relay out with the horn relay and others to make sure it worked and it does. I also replaced the relay under the dash that clicked when i tried to start it. I am totally stumped. What do you guys think it could be? Thanks in advance!

 

[bergz0]

Thanks for the input. If the neutral safety switch was bad I wouldn't be able to drive it after I bypass the relay to start it right?

 

[bergz0]

Also fuse #24 is good

 

[1998Exp]

Doubt it; will probably throw a transmission code, depending on what's wrong there.
Your best option seems to be to trace the starter circuit from the ignition switch to the relay coil, looking where the power is lost. If you can't get hold of the schematic (some members were able to download it for free -- search), I will post it for you later today.

Thanks for the input. If the neutral safety switch was bad I wouldn't be able to drive it after I bypass the relay to start it right?

 

[bergz0]

Thank you

 

[koda2000]

Free wiring diagrams are available here.

http://search.ebscohost.com/

Use rrcc and rebsco to login. The go to the automotive reference section.

Seems to me that you located the main issue. The starter relay isn't getting power when you turn the key to START. Ignition switch, fuse, wiring or maybe the neutral safety switch. You didn't answer my previous question as to whether it's manual or automatic trans. If manual there's also a safety switch on the clutch pedal.

 

[bergz0]

Auto

 

[koda2000]

Auto

Then the neutral safety switch is a possibility. Odd that you didn't have a problem until you changed the fuel pump. Coincidence?

 

[bergz0]

Runs fine and I can drive it when I jump the #30 and "87 pin on starter relay like I said above

 

[koda2000]

Runs fine and I can drive it when I jump the #30 and "87 pin on starter relay like I said above

Yes, but when you do this you're bypassing the ignition switch START connection and the neutral safety switch (plus the related wiring).

Think carefully. Did anything happen while you were changing the fuel pump? Is there something you haven't told us? Coincidences happen, but in my experience the last thing you messed with is often where the problem is.