The 4.0 Swap was chump change compared to this - Look inside...

[janderson4010]

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thanks man long time no see

 

[broncobra22]

Jon what tranny did the output shaft come from and was it solid or hollow in the center of the shaft,looking at the end where you cut it off? You are using the 1350 as the doubler & the 1354 as the transfer case, right? I'm actually thinking I'll build one using the 1350 for the transfer case & 1354 for the doubler.
Talked with the engineer about shaft strength & he was able to quickly pick up the Borg Warner info for both cases...I made the tire parameters around the big meats you traded for (35x15.5x15) if I recall correctly, 4200 pounds, and 250 hp I wanted to be on the high side just to be cautious...he thinks other parts in the drive line would probably fail before the shaft given that automotive testing of trans, transfer cases and differentials are carried out at about 3 times the maximum real world usage requirements and stressed by extreme temps and minimum lubrousity for hundreds of hours to part/unit failure. That was good news however I did not have any info on that "weak link shaft" of unknown, to me, origin and construction...but he felt that if it was not a hollow core shaft and that the diameter was not turned down significantly (have to get back to him on that one) it should hold up. Of course he also stated that my limited skills as a welder would probably be the real weak link in the projects viability! I'd fire him if he still worked for me. He also recommended heat treating of the finished shaft assembly...typical engineer. If you could answer my initial questions I'll get back to him for you. Thanks Rick C.

 

[janderson4010]

Its the output from the fm146, im using the 1350 as the doubler and the 1354 as the case. The output shaft is solid

 

[broncobra22]

Shaft strength

Jon, shaft turned down to 7/8" or 3/4" as a minimum & 35" max on tires...he also suggested staying with differential gear ratio under 4.88 because the pinion gear gets so small in sets over 5 to 1 ratios. Drive shafts and axles also should be rather robust...I had him visit your thread and get a feel for what the terrain looked like in your area and what you put your trucks through he couldn't believe what you guys were up to.

 

[janderson4010]

yeah if im running a doubler then the 4.88's should be a perfect r&p ratio. the shaft is just shy of 15/16" i believe so 7/8ths would be fine, as long as thats not to much out of the sector shaft from the tcase, i guess that really depends on the depth of the joint.

 

[broncobra22]

Sector shaft

Yeah I'll give that some thought, whats the diameter of the section shaft and does it taper down after the splines?

 

[janderson4010]

yeah it tapers down after the gear for the planetaries from 1 1/8 to 1 1/16, the gear itself is is 2" long, i was going to machine the hole about 3/4 to an inch into the gear, machine the shaft down, press together and weld

 

[broncobra22]

Thumbs up on the doubler

Looks like a 7/8" diameter hole bored 1" to 1 1/8" deep with a 45 degree edge bevel will prepare the gear shaft for a tight press and welding. Proper heat treating after the welding process is really the only real insurance that the shaft will hold up to its theoretical limits = $$, but slow cooling in heated sand or even a small oven that has been preheated to 400 degrees or so and gradually lowerd to room temp over a 4 or 5 hour period will at least deter weld cracking and is absolutely necessary. These dimensions for the Fm146 and 1350 BW shafts only. I would think any machine shop could turn it out in a 1 hr. minimum rate...welding with good penetration and 70,000 lb. high quality wire or tig is also a must. Build it right, drive it smart...Think you gonna have a strong crawler!

 

[janderson4010]

went out and cut the driver side front body mount and ebrake mount off, need the room for the lower links, they will end up being 33" long on the lower and around 27 on the upper. I plugged the measurements into a link calculator and it shows about 125% antisquat, which i think is pretty good, it should keep the front from unloading while on a hillclimb. didn't get a very good roll center but i think if i play around with my panhard i can get a better number on that. 3 links are fun!!!

 

[rookieshooter]

Those numbers sound good but with that said, you could research the Pirate site and read about what's the best anti squat, anti dive until the cows come home. I would not get hung up too much about all tha.
A lot of it is just what you can actually get under the truck.
You just won't know until it's done.
The variables change so much from trail to trail. Sometimes you may want the front suspension to raise when up against an obstacle.
Then there's times you don't want it to dive either and have to get your buddies to roll you back over.
Did you locate your COG? Can't wait until it's done.
Bottom line is...just get it done and have some fun.

 

[janderson4010]

You have to have a fairly good idea of your cog to calculate the other things. Yeah i put all my measurements together based on locations on the vehicle i thought i could actually mount things, discounting measurements that would have made no sense based on the vehicle to places where i can get a strong protected mount that should perform well based on the numbers i came up with. Plus i have Eric aka blazinzuk showing me the ropes of building link suspensions, and he has this stuff on lock.

 

[janderson4010]

i should reiterate and say that you are absolutely right, a pretty number on paper is fine but building it on the rig is a whole other matter, i looked at locations on the rig that were feasible to even do before i started plugging numbers into the computer.

 

[broncobra22]

4 liter build

Man you and Rookieshooter are ambitious & really tackle multi-tasks with a vengence! Doubler, 3-link & SAS on top of 4 liter swap etc. I am trying to figure out a way to play and still get something (major work) done on my ride. I guess cold weather will eventually force me inside & work can continue. Best in all you do!

 

[janderson4010]

Just ordered my steel for my trackbar and 2 sleeved poly bushings for the lower control arms on the frame end, also went and cut out my frame brackets for the lower control arms, im hoping to have my brackets installed and lower control arms mostly built by the end of this weekend

 

[rookieshooter]

Just ordered my steel for my trackbar and 2 sleeved poly bushings for the lower control arms on the frame end, also went and cut out my frame brackets for the lower control arms, im hoping to have my brackets installed and lower control arms mostly built by the end of this weekend

The weekend is coming, the weekend is coming

 

[janderson4010]

JJust found out im working on my wifes subaru so maybe not as much done on the bII as i hoped

 

[rookieshooter]

JJust found out im working on my wifes subaru so maybe not as much done on the bII as i hoped

Now this is starting to bring tears to my eyes I'll just have to go out and get some more
They opened an early Deer season here with bow so I need to check out the farm tomorrow to see if the deer are still treading water on the farm. I mean I've never seen so much rain and the farm is only about 200 yards from the Potomac river.

 

[janderson4010]

just had to change the tie rod ends on the subie but i accomplished that in a few hrs, so now im going to run out to my dads and drill some 5/8" holes in the brackets i made the other day. once i do that i can come back and bolt the heim in, and tack weld everything, should have at least one if not both frame side lower arm brackets made today.

 

[janderson4010]

got the driver side lower link mount in and welded, after i took this picture i put a gusset in made out of 1" tube i had laying around. also got the passenger side mount welded and ready to go but i ran out of gas for my mig welder, so i guess i gotta run and get that exchanged. after i get the passenger side mount welded in i can get to building the lower links themselves.

Ive decided instead of building coil buckets im just going to order the ballistic fab adjustable coil buckets and retainers, one less thing to custom fab will get this thing on the road sooner. after I get the suspension built I can resume work on the doubler, but i decided to put that on pause and finish the suspension, it really sucked changing tie rods on my wifes car in the gravel yesterday and id rather have the bII movable.

 

[broncobra22]

Looking good, shoot a bunch of fab shots if you have time...I love all that shop stuff!