The dreaded chain rattle, quick question.

[dasfinc]

I picked up a 99 4.0 SOHC truck on the extreme cheap that had a cold start rattle (the typical tensioner symptom of just a few seconds of loud rattle, then a super minor rattle until warm.

Replaced the front and rear cassette tensioners, and a fresh synth blend oil change (albeit a purolator filter), and the rattle is now rather random on start (one in maybe 3 cold starts it rattles), and once it's done with that start-up rattle it's dead quite/smooth). The rattle is much shorter/quiter, and like mentioned, intermittent.

Thoughts? Primary tensioner? Should I toss on a better oil filter? (Which ones have the appropriate non-drain back style etc?). Truck has 109k on it, and seems to have been reasonable well maintained.

Will likely tear down in spring once I pull the mustang out if storage, but would like to be 100% confident it will be stout for winter.

 

[dasfinc]

And yes, I've read the stickies, no mention of intermittent behavior, or what recommended oil filters there are.

 

[PAExplorerXLT]

What is this rattle like? I have started hearing something like steel balls rattling in a can. It is very new so I haven noticed any pattern but it doesn’t seem to be temperature related.

 

[my98nnj]

It's hard to answer your question. The tensioners are most likely shot. Will it last???
My 98 had the 1-2 second cold start rattle from the day I purchased it with 58k on the clock. It ran dead quiet and perfectly smooth for 6 more years with nothing more then regular oil changes. I sold it with 103k on the clock and the same 1-2 second cold start rattle.

 

[boominXplorer]

Put a Ford oil filter on it. They have the silicone check ball that keeps the engine primed and will get rid of that 3 second clatter on startup

 

[dasfinc]

I have no problem m shelling out the $5 for the Motorcraft filter, but my follow up question is: the filter I purchased states that it has an anti drain-back valve. So I assume it's just crappy? With it being as intermittent as it is, I'd buy that excuse, but just curious if it's that common.

 

[dasfinc]

Follow up question, do aftermarket tensioners have that bad of a history of not being good right out of the box?

 

[boominXplorer]

Follow up question, do aftermarket tensioners have that bad of a history of not being good right out of the box?

I would still go for the ford oil filter but all actual tensioners other than oem ford are junk, expecially the ones is the cheap ebay kits. Throw some new ford ones or swap back in the ones you took out. Even though they are used, they will be better than the aftermarket ones if your short on cash.

 

[Blacksheep Josh]

honestly, I tried like 10 different types of oil filters with the anti drain valve and none of them really helped with the noise.

If you're comfortable with doing it, replace what you haven't. There's slack somewhere. Gotta get rid of it.

 

[dasfinc]

More questions:

I feel like the rattle is only from the front of the engine since replacing the two cassete tensioners with aftermarket parts. (Will verify later with Mechanics stethoscope)

Can I get just the front tensioner (and I assume its also hydraulically assisted, correct)? Whats the part number of that and any related things to replace if I'm going to tear the water pump off to get to it.

 

[2000StreetRod]

2WD or 4WD?

You don't need to remove the water pump to replace the primary (crankshaft to jackshaft) chain tensioner. You can leave it attached to the front timing cover which does have to be removed. That saves some time and a gasket.

Do you have 4WD? If so, you may be hearing a failed balance shaft chain tensioner. Replacing it is a lot more trouble because the block cradle (upper oil pan) must be removed to gain access to the base mounting bolts.

It is very difficult to isolate the source of the rattle because sounds echo off the interior of the block. The following threads may be helpful:

Timing chain rattle resolution process - SOHC V6

SOHC V6 Timing Chain Related PNs

SOHC V6 Timing Chain Parts Sources

 

[dasfinc]

You don't need to remove the water pump to replace the primary (crankshaft to jackshaft) chain tensioner. You can leave it attached to the front timing cover which does have to be removed. That saves some time and a gasket.

Do you have 4WD? If so, you may be hearing a failed balance shaft chain tensioner. Replacing it is a lot more trouble because the block cradle (upper oil pan) must be removed to gain access to the base mounting bolts.

It is very difficult to isolate the source of the rattle because sounds echo off the interior of the block. The following threads may be helpful:

Timing chain rattle resolution process - SOHC V6

SOHC V6 Timing Chain Related PNs

SOHC V6 Timing Chain Parts Sources

Found the part number in the middle one, thank you.

I'm still a little hazy on how the Balance Shaft to Crank shaft OR the Jack Shaft to Crank Shaft tensioners even work to be honest... Unless I'm mistaken neither of them could be to blame since they operate soley under spring pressure, and this issue is intermittent even on cold start? (Mine is 4x4)

So I still have a remaining question before I pull the trigger on tearing that apart...

My ONLY symptom is still an occasional 1-2 second rattle on start. Prior to replacing the Jackshaft to Camshaft tensioners, it rattled (albeit not as audibly after the first 2 seconds) until nearly warm.

My current thought process is:

Replace oil filter with Motorcraft one I've already purchased and add Lucas Oil Stabl for good measure.

If rattling persists:

Purchase 00M12 Kit (YL2Z-9E473-AA), and the Primary Crank/Jack shaft tensioner 1L2Z-6L266-AA and its guide (F77Z-6K297-BC) from Tasca

This will replace the brand new (aftermarket) front/Left Timing tensioner in case the one I purchased is crap, and add the oil restrictor piece. I will also have easier access to get to the Timing cover to do the Jack shaft tensioner and guide (which do not require special tools or anything and neither are terribly expensive for good measure)

 

[2000StreetRod]

apparently 4WD

Since you mentioned the balance shaft to crankshaft chain I'm going to assume that you have 4WD. Until you actually inspect you and I are just guessing. Based on the age of your vehicle (I don't know the mileage) I predict that your primary and balance shaft chain tensioners are both broken and there is a good chance one of your cassette guides is broken. The start up rattle could be due to a hydraulic tensioner building up oil pressure but could just as easily be due to a broken cassette guide. After oil flows to the chain and guide, the lubrication quiets the rattle. I replaced all of my timing chain components and still had a very brief cold start rattle so I installed a pre-oiler. It will be difficult to replace the balance shaft tensioner with the engine in the vehicle.

 

[dasfinc]

Since you mentioned the balance shaft to crankshaft chain I'm going to assume that you have 4WD. Until you actually inspect you and I are just guessing. Based on the age of your vehicle (I don't know the mileage) I predict that your primary and balance shaft chain tensioners are both broken and there is a good chance one of your cassette guides is broken. The start up rattle could be due to a hydraulic tensioner building up oil pressure but could just as easily be due to a broken cassette guide. After oil flows to the chain and guide, the lubrication quiets the rattle. I replaced all of my timing chain components and still had a very brief cold start rattle so I installed a pre-oiler. It will be difficult to replace the balance shaft tensioner with the engine in the vehicle.

Just updated my post after having realized that I didn't clearly state 4X4 .

I'm no stranger to working in/around vehicles (I've flipped 30+ cars/trucks over the past 10 years as a hobby, including several explorers and rangers, but all 4.0 OHV or 5.0 powered trucks), and when I say this thing runs/idles like silk, outside of that startup rattle, it makes it hard to believe that it could still be rattling due to something that's completely broken/failed?

I'm REALLY not keen on removing the whole motor in a truck that has tires worth more than it on it currently, but I've read enough of the threads and know the risk I took buying a truck powered by this engine.

It has 109K on it, and it had the cassette tensioners replaced at some point (the front left one was incorrectly replaced with a rear tensioner...)

Again, I know its just guess and check until I actually pull **** off the motor to inspect it, but as I bought this to get me through winter, I don't plan on doing anything substantial until it Grenades, or until spring.

Pics for Clicks I suppose

 

[J_C]

...this thing runs/idles like silk, outside of that startup rattle...2 seconds... has tires worth more than it on it currently

... read enough of the threads and know the risk...109K on it... I don't plan on doing anything substantial until it Grenades, or until spring.

You've answered your own question. It will "most likely" go another 50K+ mi. before anything more needs done. It's low miles for the age and at that point, it's up to you to decide if it's worth a new set of tires and more work.

It's not likely to go from only 2 seconds of cold startup rattle to going BOOM, let the engine noise tell you when more needs done.