Two serpentine belts in one month

[92Jalopy]

Hi. I have a 92 Explorer 4.0L and the now-familiar slap-slap-slap of a fraying belt happened again today. I've re-read the forum answers and this time I will double check that every pulley is clean all around and that the alternator doesn't move off-axis, and I'll use another Goodyear Gatorback belt. Some posts say to change the tensioner, which I might, depending on responses here.

My potential pitfall is that I replaced the first dying belt with the non-air conditioner version. My A/C had been determined to be dead, so I just bypassed it and the belt path didn't seem to get anywhere near the underside of the compressor. It never squealed, and it felt, looked and sounded good even after a day or 2 when I checked it.

Should I put the right belt on, to needlessly spin the dead compressor, or is my problem somewhere else? The fraying, btw, is from the front edge of the belt, and the remainder of the belt is forward in its track on the various pulleys.
Sorry for so many words .. my first post! TIA,
Tim

 

[IZwack]

Spinning the compressor even if its bad shouldnt be a problem (so you don't need to bypass it unless its squealing and is just annoying) because the clutch on it is not engaged unless you turn on the air conditioning.

As for the frayed belt, check all the pulleys and make sure there are no damaged or dinged ribs on the pulleys themselves -- these are often what eat up belts.

 

[Albino 94LTD]

Barack is correct (in many ways).

How do you know the compressor is bad? There's a low perssure cut out switch. If the system is low on coolant, it won't engage. The coolant carries the PAG oil to lubricate the compressor.

I know you don't need tha AC until August but.....

 

[92Jalopy]

More work to be done...

Thanks for the advice. The A/C diagnosis was made by a mechanic at Walt's (a small chain of shops). I didn't know better, so when he told me it wasn't even engaging, I believed that was the final word. I'll read up on A/C before I ask about whatever-they-call-Freon these days, and $$ etc.

I did buy the correct belt, to include the ac in the loop. I will have to travel to another store to get the tensioner.

Lots of stray slivers wrapped around the fan; I removed them, made sure all pulleys were smooth and clean by feel. Looked for any wobble in the components - none. Replaced belt and ran for a minute. Then, when I looked at it, I see that the belt seems to have moved forward (away from engine). Is the water pump pulley supposed to guide it? I can't find any good pictures of the pulley to compare, to see if it's supposed to have a forward flange/lip.

Here's 3 pictures, pretty much self-explanatory. The one with the (new) belt on is a bit of an optical illusion due to the angle. It's not twisted, just riding forward of center. I tried moving it back, and it returned.

Opinions appreciated -- do I have to replace water pump/parts, or will a new tensioner straighten things out? Thanks as always. -- tim

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

Take the belt off and check for paly in the water pump. With the belt off, see if the fan moves in any other direction than it's intended rotation. 90ranajo went through two belts before we noticed this and you would think that with that much play in the water pump it would lose coolant/water, but it never lost a drop

 

[fordnut71]

from the photos it looks like that water pump pully has been moving . looks like a new grove has been made compaired to the other pully in the pictures

 

[92Jalopy]

Repairs delayed 'til the rent is paid ...

... not really, the rent has been paid -- it was just a thought as I was balancing my checkbook. Unfortunately, $$ matters very much. So, thanks for saving me money at the shop.

Am I really crazy, or does the Chilton Ford Exp/ranger/mountaineer 1991-99 Repair Manual belt diagram for VINcode X have the tensioner and the idler pulleys labeled differently from the diagram under the hood? Now I'm confused a bit about all I've read about these 2 pulleys. Check here for a comparison.

I've got the belt-removal thing down to under 5 minutes now. I thought I had checked the water pump for wobble, but I was just tugging on its pulley -- now I see that the fan will go around in either direction, and when I push/pull on the blades, there is a wobble. So, new water pump, huh? (still no leaks, no temperature probs)

Did the w/p pulley get damaged or is it always smooth?
Do I definitely need the new tensioner assembly (now)?
Do I trust the cheapest reman. w/p from Schuck's (Cardone)?
Or is Rock Auto or someone else a better idea... thanks

-tim

 

[Albino 94LTD]

My '94 conforms to the book's upper image and the water pump pully is smooth.

As for a reman from Shucks, that's your call. Save $40 get a 1yr warranty. Depends on how much you'll need to rely on the X

Tensioner assembly, if it isn't squeeling, it's probably OK.

You could also try a Pull-A-Part. There's one in Lynnwood on 99

 

[ma96782]

Simple answer: Alignment issue.

_____________________________________

I can't say that I've inspected my 4.0L FORD. But, story time.....

I had a '98 Chevy Monte Carlo that ate belts.......when I finally tracked it down......the harmonic balancer was defective. The Chevy used a two piece balancer. The grooved part had gone forward (just a little) enough to ^%$# things up.

Aloha, Mark

 

[92exp4x4]

94 Explorers have a slightly different pulley arrangment from the 91 to 93 trucks. The tensioner is a son of a ** on my 94 compared to the others. I dunno why ford changed it from simple to pain, but thats why. Your manual has the updated picture.

 

[btexpress]

Yes, the water pump pulley is smooth because the back side of the belt rides on this pulley. Most of the alignment issues I have run into involved the power steering pulley, either walking on the pump shaft, or the pump shaft moves in and out too much.

My shop NEVER uses reman water pumps, we prefer to only replace them once!

 

[92Jalopy]

Thanks for all the responses and tips. I was able to replace the water pump (new, from NAPA). It's the first auto work I had done in years, so it took me longer than it should have. The rental tools were invaluable. Some posts on this site suggested that an old "fan" belt and a pair of vice grips would work to hold the clutch pulley; not in my world. The second/correct set I rented had the bolt-grab-hook tool and it took less than a minute to get it loose.

I also removed the radiator, which was easier to me than working around it. Total cost parts and supplies was about the same as the belts I ruined before diagnosis. I've only driven it 20 miles since the repair and Im keeping an eye on it. Hoping that this will be the end of this episode ....

 

[92Jalopy]

Darn! It's August already -- why didn't I listen to you about checking the A/C? I'll put it on my 2009 to-do list, if I ever get around to creating a to-do list.

 

[greendream]

Did NAPA have this?

"The second/correct set I rented had the bolt-grab-hook tool and it took less than a minute to get it loose."



Where did you rent this tool from for the belt?

 

[92Jalopy]

I rented tools from a local place

Hi, greendream. I rented the tools from a local place (Aurora Rents in Seattle, WA). I originally rented a set from Shucks Auto but they were wrong. Our NAPA store didn't have them on hand. This is what the tools looked like - I found these images on the web somewhere and they might not be exactly the same:

Good luck!

 

[cogs]

check your idler pulley bolt for tightness, while you're at it. also, what is the spec for tensioner adjustment?

 

[rocco123]

Just thought I would throw this out there....

My neighbor recently replaced a bad alternator, & began shredding belts. Found out that the old pully from the old alt was a little wider than the new one that came with the alternator. This began wearing the edge of the new belt. This was on a Jeep, but may apply??

Also, the explorer tensioners certainly do wear out. Once you remove the tensioner & release the tension you will see how much play it has.

 

[mikeinri]

The tensioner "guts" also wear. The last one I replaced had plenty of tension in the arm, but the internal parts of the pulley were toast (bearings, etc. around the bolt).

Mike