U HAUL AGAINST EXPLORERS!!!!

[RileyNugent]

“Person A decides to shoot person B. Who is at fault the gun company for making the gun or the person that pulled the trigger?”

Brian we agree those types of suits are silly. Have you heard of any successful cases like that?? NO!!!!! see http://www.schmalleger.com/we2-17.html If you have any sucessful cases, post them. Or are you going to claim that you didn’t say that either? Now we are getting off track!!!

I would like for someone to suggest a more reasonable approach to attack this issue with Uhaul. I just don’t think that complaining about the lawyers, the victims and Uhaul is the answer. If you feel so strongly that Explorers are not defective, then you should start a petition to Ford to stop the settlements. Because the settlements are the functional equivalent in the public eye of an admission of guilt even if Ford claims that they aren’t. You should do it if you believe it; but, I won’t sign it because I believe Explorers are defective and I think it will be years to come before the truth is disclosed to the public. Now are there any real soultions on what to do about this problem with Uhaul?

 

[mhn3773]

this roof load thing is crap..theres a difference between the roof handaling the weight and the roof not giving out when the truck goes ass over tea ketle

when a car rolls chances are theres alot more force then just the weight of the truck on the roof...there are atleased 2 rolled Ex's in the whoops section that have rolled while driving fairly quickly..one rolling into a ditch the truck looks a bit tweaked but the drive got out and walked away so off the "the roof will colapse the world is ending" crap no matter how well u build a car some dips##t is going to wreck it..and another Dip will wreck it even worse

remember the ratio of smart to dumb people is 2 to 1 favoring morons...

 

[Mbrooks420]

Most Explorer accidents that happen are attributed to driver error. I hope you don't plan on driving any automobiles. Chevies aren't above product flaws. Their Blazers have had at least 3 recalls on their brake systems and they are still death traps. I've logged in over 30k miles in my Explorer and I drove it hard and too fast. I never even had a close call. That is proof enough for me. Just because people can't drive a vehicle proporly isn't reason to blame Ford for not having a 100% safe vehicle.

 

[RileyNugent]

I would agree that most accidents are due to driver error. Let’s get it straight not everybody is winning. Depending on the jurisdiction some courts are able to allocate liability based on the parities comparative fault. In contributory negligence jurisdictions, operator negligence may prevent any recovery. These are not slam-dunk cases for personal injury attorney’s. There are rollover lawsuits on all of the manufactures of SUV’s. You are absolutely right about the recalls on the Blazers. I just don’t think we should look away and say poor Ford “They really got unfairly hammered on the court verdicts and now we are being discriminated against.”

I noticed that you described your 96 Explorer as a fruit of the citrus variety, specifically a lemon. Maybe some poor soul bought it and was injured in an accident. By the way, why are you complaining since you have a Mountaineer? I checked their reservation site it is still a vehicle that UHAUL will let you use it to tow a trailer. However, if enough of us sign our names to a petition and send it to UHAUL maybe we can get them to expand the scope of the ban to Mountaineers and Aviators. I was actually thinking about solving the problem by calling ford and requesting for them to rebadge my explorer as a mountaineer. Again? Aside from complaining about the victims and the attorneys? Does anybody have any other suggestions about what to do about this?

Maybe we should write to UHAUL and tell them that we stand behind them and we are all going to write to our congressmen and demand that there should be stricter regulation on the rentals on trailers and trucks. We feel that people should become certified before they are allowed to drive one of their big trucks or pull a trailer. It is already a pain in the but to rent from UHAUL. Can you imagine if everyone had to get a license first? That would kill the entire industry. Come on if it is driver error as alleged then why not push for it? Brian? What do you think? I would put my name on it.

 

[mhn3773]

i think u are now TRYING to piss in peoples cherios

think about it..if the mounty and the Ex are the same car..wouldnt the flaws be the SAME! over the 2 cars?? which would mean that the mounty would get as much crap as the explorer because it would "spontaiously" roll over like the ex...but people are not goinging to complain about the mounty because it has NONE of the problems the Ex suposidly has...gee i wonder why?

also to the guy that has crap to say about the bronco..dont u mean bronco II because that is the one that rolled over that tinny tinny little truck..it also rolled becase it was treated like a porsche

 

[RileyNugent]

I know you are not talking about me? However, who are you talking about that referenced the Broncos And Bronco IIs . I would like to read the post.

As far as the Avaitor Oh no the aviator is different from an explorer!! “Although Aviator shares the same platform as the Ford Explorer and Mercury Mountaineer, Aviator is significantly different and feels more luxurious, as it should.” See for yourself http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/siegel/x1705sgl.htm

I agree it seems to be a silly distinction. I suspect in the immediate future Avaitor owners along with mountaineer owners will feel our pain. Are all mountaineers V-8s. I know they have all wheel drive instead of 4wd I presume they were available in 2wd versions too. I noticed on the above site that that the 2wd Avaitors have a higher towing capacity than the AWD. Isn’t the opposite true in 4wd versions of explorers and other 4wd vehicles. (Basically aren’t 4wd vehicles usually rated with a higher towing capacity?) I guess AWD is a more delicate system?

I can’t imagine that UHAUL is going to continue to allow the use of Mountaineers as towing vehicles. Money grubbing dealers may run Explorers through as Mountaineers and expose the company to even greater liability. Gee it looked like a Mountaineer!!! Sure there is an exclusion but I in the event of the accident the drivers own insurance company could complain “hey you could have prevented this whole accident by following your company policy.”

 

[explr1]

Found this site.

http://www.dontrentfromuhaul.com

Their starting a petition to give to Uhaul.

 

[RileyNugent]

Old news!! We know about it.

 

[bauer91]

u-haul claim

This claim by u-haul is crap. I know ont thing if they wont let an explorer tow a trailer, than they better do the same for isuzu trooper, landrover discovery, jeep wrangler, and other suv's like them that are 10 times more likely to roll over. there's nothing wrong with as far as i'm conserned explorer makes the world go round,besides as it being the best selling vehicle in america suv's cars, trucks vans, etc. u-hauls gonna tell us where wrong, cat piss!!!

 

[agallant]

I just have to say one thing about ford.

I have owned a BMW, 2 porsches, and a Saab before my X. I love the X but i have had more problems with it than any of my other cars, including the BMW which i drove for 120K and only had to do breaks, shocks and tires. As for the porsches no problems. American auto makers hold no where near the attention to detail as others.

 

[modette]

This is getting so off topic.

I agree with many others here, most of the rollovers were do to the tire not the Explorer itself. The idea that the roof can not hold up is nuts. Like someone said the roof in a rollover under goes a hell of a lot more force then the weight of the vehical alone. Specially with many flips at high rate of speed...that is like a jackhammer...in it is repeating the force over and over again...I do not think any mass produced vehical can withstand that.

I drive my vehicals really fast, one reason I got the 2004 Explorer to slow my ass down. Before I owned a 1997 Ford Escort...I had it somewhat modded and would routinly do 130mph in it...was it made for that speed? NO. If I wrecked at that speed it would of been my fault, not Fords. I also had a 2001 Cougar ZN I would get it up to 140mph between Detroit and Kalamazoo every weekend...use shoulders to pass slower drivers...again I was lucky but anything that could of happened would of been MY FAULT not Fords. Heck I love speed, I took the Explorer up to its controlled 110mph just last week to TN...handled the speed with ease...but it was not ment for that speed. Again it would of been MY FAULT not Fords. True I might be able to sue Ford if I did wreck and live and say if you put a limit of 110mph on the Explorer why did you not put a 90mph limit instead???? Heck I would probably be able to settle out of court but I grew up learning to take resonsability for my actions. Also the last I looked truck tires are not rated for a high rate of speed....same with most car tires.

This all applys to U-haul because some people that rent trailers just do not drive safe to begin with. They have no idea how to pull a trailer...heck how many times on a trip as I am cruising at 70-80mph there is some dip **** in the left hand fast lane pulling a trailer or in a rental truck thinking they too should be doing 70-80mph too? Last I checked at the Secratary of State (DMV) in Michigan is that when you are pulling a trailer you are restricted to 55mph. But yet I see many people with their jet skis, boats, utility trailers, car trailers, snow mobils and other trailers in the fast lane doing 70-80 heck even 90mph. This is unsafe period...should you blow a tire or whatever causing you to rollover you should take responsability for your actions, not blame Ford, U-haul or whoever because your a dipshit...blame yourself.

I also signed the petition although I will never rent a U-haul or never plan too. I rather buy a $500 trailer and just use it, if I have to sell it at the end then no biggy. Some here claim to rent Uhaul trailers all the time, whould it not be cheaper to find a used trailer that fits your needs if not new? Heck normal 4x6 trailers are not expensive to begin with and used are next to nothing. One guy wanted to sell me one once for $50...but as my father was buying it I took the new option as the trailer was int he end for him and I wanted to know the history of it...but that is just me. In the end I think U-haul needs to relook at its business, and see that so many people not just here but elsewhere ont he net do not like their service and business decisions...their quality from what I have heard about makes me not to rent from them if I had too. In the end Ford will probably change the name of the Explorer to something else to just get rid of the bad image...what a shame that they have to do that.

By the way can you also rent a U-haul with a Lincoln Aviator? I would think you could seeing as you can with the Mountaineer. That is what is nuts. I emailed them to address that...I said this: I have a 2004 Mercury Mountaineer and I would like to rent a Uhaul, is it safe to pull a trailer with the Mountaineer? heee lets see what they say.

 

[lonestar]

Originally posted by RileyNugent
Old news!! We know about it.

Riley, are you on here just to try to piss people off. With only 13 posts, it seems your only purpose here is to bring up some obscure and bias opinions about Ford Explorers and shun Ford like all those idiots on the UHAUL forum. And then you want to rehash the Ford Pinto, yes every automotive company has a lemon.

1. UHAUL's decision was not a safety issue.

Ths thread was not to discuss saftey issues, but rather Uhauls hash decision about banning only one vehicle.

2. The Aviator is mechanically identical to the Mountaineer and Explorer, just as the Navigator to the Expedition.

The only difference is all the trim and fancy gadgets that make it appear "significantly different and feels more luxurious". Take a baseline X, throw in some fancy leather seat, GPS, wheels, wood dash and some other goodies and you got an aviator. The may have diff engine and trans options, but the frame and suspension are the same.

Also, as mentioned in the UHAUL forums....

PRODUCT LIABILITY...

McDonalds has been mentioned in several obese lawsuits. Do you think McDonalds should have the right to stop selling to people over a certain weight in order to seperate themselves from the obese image? I hate for McDonalds to be liable for making someone FAT.

 

[Dolphan]

I do NOT agree with Riley, I am NOT advocating a boycott of Ford, rather a show of numbers of support for the vehicle so they will stand up for it. I like my Explorer, but before I put down $25K+ for a new one it better be considered a relaible vehicle. If the Explorer goes the way of other cars ala Pinto, I do not see alot of people buying and the name will die. Uhaul is the largest chain of rental trucks/trailers if they have a ban it's only a matter of time before the smaller ones will follow

 

[AK Exploder]

hey for all you ppl that were talkin bout your tires. i went down to costco and there was some old guy there. he brought up his computer and i got him to let me mess with it and got them to put 31x10.5-R15 BF Goodrich mud terrains on it no problem. it was sweet.

 

[Dolphan]

There is the other side of this also, other company's will also follow the Uhaul exlusion. How many Chevy's or other SUV do you see with bigger tires and rims - but yet the Explorer seems to be singled out for no service.

From another post
America's Tires refuses service

Yesterday i go into America's tires to get my tires rebalanced and rotated and the manager refuses service to me. He said that the new policy is that America's Tires will not work on any explorer lifted and without the stock tire size. What's up with this? Can they do this? I bought my tires there and paid extra for lifetime balancing and rotating.

 

[dogfriend]

I noticed on the above site that that the 2wd Avaitors have a higher towing capacity than the AWD. Isn’t the opposite true in 4wd versions of explorers and other 4wd vehicles. (Basically aren’t 4wd vehicles usually rated with a higher towing capacity?) I guess AWD is a more delicate system?

No, you are incorrect on both counts.

Most 4wd vehicles have lower rated towing capacity than their 2wd counterparts. There is a simple reason for this: The 4wd version weighs more than the 2wd vehicle because of the driving front axle, transfer case, front driveshaft, etc. The towing capacity is a factor of the different component capabilities including the capability of the suspension and brake system. Therefore a 4wd must be derated to account for the extra weight of the 4wd system.

I have yet to see any evidence that the AWD system that Ford uses is "delicate". I don't recall that many (or any) of the people with the AWD full time system have reported any problems with it. It is used with the V8 Explorers and Mountaineers, so it must be capable of handling the torque from that engine.

 

[Mbrooks420]

I noticed that you described your 96 Explorer as a fruit of the citrus variety, specifically a lemon. Maybe some poor soul bought it and was injured in an accident.

You are grasping at straws now. My old Explorer didn't have any safety issues with it at all. It just had a junked drivetrain. It happens.

 

[RileyNugent]

Thank you!!!

The reason why I thought that a 4wd is a better towing vehicle is because I tried to tow a theft recovered BMW with a Ford 2wd Truck. UHaul said no way unless it was a 4wd. I asked why? I was told that the 4wd increased the weight of the vehicle and that the tow vehicle can't be lighter than the vehicle you are towing. So that is why I was puzzled when I saw that a 2wd aviator can tow more than an AWD. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[RileyNugent]

Originally posted by lonestar
[Riley, are you on here just to try to piss people off. ]

Lonestar:

No I am not here to piss everyone off. I am here like everyone else. I own an Explorer and am fed up with Ford. I have owned Mercedes, Volvos, Saabs and BMW’s. I have never experienced; so, many problems with a car and such a terrible dealer network. With all the stupid problems that I am having I am sorry I can’t help believe that there is not a major design defect with this vehicle. I am sorry that I am hurt your feelings by not towing the company line. I disagree with people who say that is not a Ford problem. Whether it is a defect or driver error it is an image problem for Ford. I just feel that pushing Ford is what we need to do.

Its kind of funny it seems like a lot of people who reported that they are going to boycott UHAUL would have never rented from them anyway. The only way a boycott will make a difference is if you could hurt the company’s’ bottom line. Clearly we are not going to accomplish this and no one at UHAUL will believe it either. So why continue with arguments along this strategy?

As for my questions about the Mountaineer and Aviator I know they are basically the same. However, it was my mistake I was hoping to get more factual information and less emotion. Is there some rational reason how they could differentiate the vehicles? As anyone involved in racing knows the displacement of weight can make significant differences in the handling characteristics of a vehicle. I just wanted to know if anybody knows weather the AWDs were any less likely to roll to justify distinction. Those were my questions? If they are obscure, I am sorry? (Note: dogfriend nothing in this post is about you I appreciated the information you provided)

Personally I don’t think that the differences are significant to justify the distinction. I was hoping that somebody would come at me with facts that weight of the v8 engine and AWD drive train is not significantly different. No your response was the frames the same and they are basically the same. I have challenged people to post facts rather than make bald assertions that all of these accidents occurred from driver error. If they were driving 120 and driving intoxicated them I want to know. I have asked people to back up with facts what they put forth. Sorry!!!

I agree with you I don’t think the distinction was based on the model. Most likely I think it was based on the demographics of the purchaser. I suspect that the Mountaineer and Aviator owners were singled out because they are typically older and presumably more careful. Whether that is true who knows?

Dolphan: As far as the tire stores refusal to honor the rotation agreement I wouldn’t sit still for that. If they contracted with you to rotate your tires, they should either stand by their contract or refund you what you paid. I would start by calling the area zone manager zone office for the tire store and demand a refund. That really makes me mad!!! I would probably take it to small claims if I had to. Oopps!!!, I said that naughty word. “Litigation” Unlike other people on this site, I don’t think there is anything wrong with doing everything you legally can to force people to honor their agreement.
If I am killed in this piece of junk Explorer before I sell it, I hope that my family sues Ford.

By the way Lonestar your comment “And then you want to rehash the Ford Pinto, yes every automotive company has a lemon.” Oh please!!! Did you forget about the Edsel? What about the transmission problems with the Tarus or the head gasket problems of the Windstar? I could go on; but, I am tired. I am going to bed. I’ll be back tomorrow.

 

[Kadarom Douhrek]

Originally posted by RileyNugent
Thank you!!!

The reason why I thought that a 4wd is a better towing vehicle is because I tried to tow a theft recovered BMW with a Ford 2wd Truck. UHaul said no way unless it was a 4wd. I asked why? I was told that the 4wd increased the weight of the vehicle and that the tow vehicle can't be lighter than the vehicle you are towing. So that is why I was puzzled when I saw that a 2wd aviator can tow more than an AWD. Thanks for clearing that up.

Hah!!
Could you imagine if that was true?
Big rigs would have to weight over 40 tons.