Underdrive pullies installed

[Ronin8002]

Just finished installing my ASP underdrive crank pulley and Underdog performance underdrive water pump pulley. I also bought an overdrive alternator pulley but I haven't installed it yet. Anyway, I learned a number of things in the process so I thought I'd post them here for the benefit of anyone who was installing them on a 3d gen.

Pulling the clutch fan:
-I rented a clutch fan removal kit for this, however, the wrench that is supposed to fit around the fan nut itself was a bit too big. I used vice grips on the fan nut and put a cheater bar on the handle of the vice grips to break the fan nut loose. You could also use a large crescent wrench so you don't scratch up the surface of the fan nut.

Pulling the stock crank pulley:
-Nothing really 3d gen specific here. I didn't feel like removing my radiator just so I could use an impact gun so I bought a 20 inch breaker bar and used an impact socket and impact extension. I hooked up the breaker bar to the crank pulley bolt then braced the breaker bar against the top of the drivers' side frame rail. I then bumped the starter once and that loosened the bolt just fine. Another thing about pulling the crank pulley without removing your radiator is that you will have to cut about 1.5 inches or so off the center bolt of your crank pulley removal tool. I believe Aldive mentioned this in his writeup also...I also found it to be a PITA. Not really a dremel job...more of a die grinder job.

Installing the belt:
-It was recommended that I use a Goodyear Gatorback belt for this installation, part number 4060865 (86.5" long). I decided to try it, even though I didn't install the alternator pulley today. Well, turns out this belt was too large for the setup....every time I turned my A/C on the belt started screeching and wouldn't stop until I turned off the A/C. Sometimes it would even start screeching during a turn (I guess due to the increased load of the P/S pump) and would keep screeching as I drove down the road....not cool. If I had installed the Underdog Alt pulley (smaller than stock) it would have been even worse I think. I ended up putting the stock belt back on....I *think* it is 86.3" long. Anyway this fixed the problem from what I can tell. I may need to step down to an 86" or smaller belt when I install the Alt Pulley.

Edit: The stock Motorcraft belt (part # JK6-861BA) actually measures 86.125" So basically that's a tiny bit bigger than the equivalent Gatorback 4060860 or a Dayco 5060860 (both 86" even) The auto parts stores didn't have these in stock so the factory belt works for now.

Other impressions:
-No problems with alternator voltage once I got the belt problem worked out. I am seeing 13.8 volts at idle and 14.0 above 1000RPM with the A/C on or off. Not really sure I need the alt pulley so I'll just keep an eye on it for now and see.

-No problems with cooling either...normal range of 192-198 driving around town with A/C on or off. Ambient temps are in the mid 70's.

So far, seems to be a worthwhile mod. I think I felt a slight increase in power and I definitely made a noticeable increase in mileage driving around town (about 2-3 MPG from what I can see so far...based on the Scanguage II). I'll be making a longer highway trip tomorrow and will comment on my mileage from that. Before I installed the pullies I was just barely 25 MPG on the highway at about 67mph with no traffic.

I am leaving the clutch fan installed for now to see what kind of mileage I get over the next week or two. Later on I will install my Black Magic 150 electric fan and a Spal variable fan controller to see what that yields.

 

[MillerTimeX17]

so any updates on the gas mileage from the highway trip?

 

[Tylers02]

Think this will be my next mod along with an electric fan. I am going to go with the Steeda pullys but do we have the same style water pump as the 96-01 or 01-04 mustangs. I am guessing the 01-04 but just want to make sure.

 

[Limited02]

When on Steeda's website looking at UDP's, scroll down to where it says "Notes." there is a link with pictures to help decide what length pump you have, short or long. Mine is the longer one(96-mid 01') Here is a link-

http://www.steeda.com/products/_popups/pulley_identify.php

 

[Tylers02]

Thanks Limited Im sure mine is the same as yours but I will check it out tomorrow when I throw on my plenum.

 

[Ronin8002]

Ok, so I drove from VA to MD yesterday....man I hate how 95 gets with traffic so much these days. I sat in traffic for an hour....it took 3.5 hours for what should have been a 2.5 hour trip. Hopefully my next trip will allow me to get a true highway mileage reading.

Anyway despite the traffic I still managed 22 MPG. Last time I drove the same route with a lot of traffic I got 17-18...so I'd say that's an improvement.

After doing more driving around town it looks like I get 16-17 and if I don't hit too many lights I can get 18 or a little more.

Voltage still looks good....lowest I saw was 13.5 at night with headlights and A/C on.

Water temp got up to 202 at one point in traffic, but quickly dropped back down to 193 once I would move and then it would go back up to 195-198. A/C wasn't affected at all. Ambient temps were 83-85

I still think I feel the drag of the clutch fan when I accelerate from a stop (I can hear it too) so I am sure that's the next thing that's holding me back...I'll definitely change it out next for the electric fan.

Overall this mod definitely gets a

 

[IZwack]

I dont think its the voltage that matters - the voltage regulator will always do its job unless its broken. What matters is the amps.

 

[Carguy3J]

I dont think its the voltage that matters - the voltage regulator will always do its job unless its broken. What matters is the amps.

Well, yes and no. I'm def no expert on electrical, but while amps are what charge the battery, voltage does matter. It has to be a certain amount above battery voltage in order to charge it. If you think of volts as "pressure" and amps as "cfm" then imagine that you have a compressor (alternator) that is capable of 1,000 cfm(amps), but only can build 15psi of pressure(volts). If you try to use that compressor to fill a tire (battery) that you want to put 35psi in, it's never going to work. Their won't be enough "excess" pressure (volts) to fill the tire. Same with a battery, if you're at 12.0 volts at the battery, anything that is expected to charge it must be greater than 12 volts. In order to do dso effeciently and effectively, it must be several volts greater.

Now, the other thing to consider is this: If the alternator is not putting out sufficient amperage to "cover" the power used while the vehicel is in use, then the battery's reserve charge will be slowly drawn down, reducing the systm voltage. So, in that way, voltage could be used as a "rough" indicator of a working charging system.

I've noticed on several Explorers, that I'm also only getting 13.5-13.8 volts, with all stock pullies, and even at higher rpm. Does anybody know if this is normal, or if it's a sign of a regulator getting weak? My understanding is that there really should be 14.1 volts + across the battery terminals when the engine is running and at a high enough rpm to produce max charge from the alt. Any suggestion to correct this "problem"? Yeah, I know it's still within "acceptable" parameters, but not mine. I want 14+ volts, or I feel as though something is wrong.

 

[2000StreetRod]

High Alternator Voltage?

. . . Same with a battery, if you're at 12.0 volts at the battery, anything that is expected to charge it must be greater than 12 volts. In order to do dso effeciently and effectively, it must be several volts greater.

Now, the other thing to consider is this: If the alternator is not putting out sufficient amperage to "cover" the power used while the vehicel is in use, then the battery's reserve charge will be slowly drawn down, reducing the systm voltage. So, in that way, voltage could be used as a "rough" indicator of a working charging system.

I've noticed on several Explorers, that I'm also only getting 13.5-13.8 volts, with all stock pullies, and even at higher rpm. Does anybody know if this is normal, or if it's a sign of a regulator getting weak? My understanding is that there really should be 14.1 volts + across the battery terminals when the engine is running and at a high enough rpm to produce max charge from the alt. Any suggestion to correct this "problem"? Yeah, I know it's still within "acceptable" parameters, but not mine. I want 14+ volts, or I feel as though something is wrong.

Before alternators (generators) the standard regulator output was 13.6 volts. The voltage of a battery when the ignition is off should be around 12.6 volts. At 2000 rpm the unregulated alternator output should be 14.0 to 14.7 volts and the regulated output should be 13.0 to 14.0 volts - the same as across the battery.

While it is true that the greater the charging voltage the faster the battery will charge (I=E/R), it is also true that faster charging results in greater battery heat and loss of electrolyte. The end result is shorter battery life (sooner replacement). I would be satisfied with 13.5-13.8 volts across the battery at 2000 rpm.

 

[Hitchhikingmike]

Thanks, for the write up. I have my UDP sitting on my dresser waiting to be installed. My explorer is a 3rd gen as well.

I have a few questions:
-You did not mention anything about the TTY bolt when installing the pulley/ balancer. Since the bolt is TTY (torque to yield) it can only be used once. Did you reuse your bolt? If not where did you pick it up at? The bolt is $25 on FordParts.com. I'm not wanting to spend that much right now for one bolt.

-The two long skinny bolts that came with the UDP from ASP that are to be threaded into the factory pulley to pull it using the tool, do not fit factory pulley. The bolts are too skinny. Did your ASP pulley give you different bolts that threaded into your stock pulley or did you not use them?

-I keep reading about how the "keyway" should have a spot of silicon on it during reinstallation to prevent oil leakage. I don't quite understand this. Is there a hole in the crank in the keyway where oil can gush out the keyway if uncovered? Did you place silicon anywhere on your crank during reinstalation?

-Did you replace your front main seal? I'm thinking of skipping this.

I also plan on taking out my radiator, as I have nothing more powerful then a dremal tool and I already plan on renting the puller tool from Autozone.

Thanks, sorry for being long winded

Thanks.

 

[Ronin8002]

I didn't reuse my old bolt. I sprung for the 25 dollar one...I made myself feel better about it by reminding myself how much it would cost to get a new radiator/pulley if I re-used the old bolt and it decided to let go. To be honest, on my old 91 OHV I reused the bolt and it worked fine, but then again I reinstalled it using an impact gun which was also technically wrong. I'd rather just pay 25 now and have peace of mind.

I didn't use the ASP puller bolts for the same reason. I ended up using the AC compressor mounting bolts I saved from my 91 OHV...they fit fine. If you look in my response that I wrote to your post in Aldive's thread you'll see why I decided not to use the ones from my 2004

The whole keyway thing is just the slot that is on the inside of the bolt hole of the crank pulley. Put silicon in there...I guess the idea is that will keep in any stray oil that makes it past the front seal. Silicon just goes in the keyway on the pulley, nowhere else.

I didn't replace my front seal because my truck only had 44k on it when I did this...I figured the factory one was still good since I didn't see any leaks there before I took the factory crank pulley off.

Hope that helps!

 

[Ronin8002]

Ok so after the past week or two of 95+ degree weather, I've come to the following conclusion:

If you are using the underdrive water pump pulley with the crank underdrive pulley, cooling is going to be much more critical for your truck. This may or may not be a consideration depending on where you live and how you drive. I live in an area that gets hot during the summer and I do a fair amount of city and highway driving.

I would recommend using the stock clutch fan if you're using both underdrive pullies, as it will be 100% reliable and cool better than most electric fans (except maybe the mark VIII fan).

The HHR fan is good fan but not if you're using both underdrive pullies. Even at full continuous speed it can't keep up with the A/C running and the high (95+ degree) ambient temps. My coolant temp was going as high as 212 in traffic (on the dashboard guage it looked about dead center but I'm relying on my scanguage for more accurate readings). With the clutch fan reinstalled it the hottest it got was 204.

 

[Hitchhikingmike]

Yeah, my temperatures peak at 211 in traffic as well. Otherwise the engine stays at 194 as long as I'm moving.

But when my temperature peaks at 210 I turn the ac off the the engine temperature drops back down.

 

[Limited02]

Had the same problem last week with mine. I don't have underdrive pullies, but the fan wouldn't really keep up witht the AC running if I idled long enough. Thinking about switching to the stock fan unless I find a Mark VIII fan.

 

[Ronin8002]

Must be the airflow characteristics of our engine compartments in the 3rd Gens. I always thought some type of hood vents would be good for letting all the heat out.

I think I'm going to stick with the stock fan...I am starting to make my truck more offroadable and don't want to risk overheating if I'm out in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Hitchhikingmike]

We'll I also put back in my stock fan clutch. My taurus electric fan failed. I'm sure if I did have an electric fan the temperatures would never peak 195 standing still. Since the electric fans can run faster than the engine speed at idle, and since the stock fan spins even slower now with the under drive pulley installed, I'm positive an electric fan would be idea.

My air conditioning temperature increases about 15 degrees warmer when I slow down to a stop compared to when I'm moving. It's fine for now as all my driving is on the highway.

But bottom line is- with the under drive pulley installed, the mechanical fan spins to slow to properly keep the engine cool and ac working well when you are not moving.