What kind of church would attract you?

[glfredrick]

I am posting a poll to help with some research that I am doing as a seminary student in chruch starting. I am looking for honest answers from regular people, not some quasi-religious debate.

If you have comments, please feel free to post them, but I may not always respond. I am mostly looking for ideas into the mindset of a typical individual that can help me develop a church starting program for real people (versus the typically religious stereotypes).

Thanks,
Pastor glfredrick

 

[ahhjaws]

Sorry, it's not letting me vote for multiple ones.

 

[Brandon4AU]

Play some KJ-52 and I am in =)

 

[hrbib21]

I wouldn't leave my church for another church (Roman Catholic). I go where I feel comfortable and I already do. I would bet that most people would stick with the status quo when it comes to their church because they build relationships with people there and wouldn't want to lose that.

 

[GJarrett]

Look up Rick Warren's Saddleback Church website and study the Saddleback church model. Read his books "The Purpose Driven Church" and "40 Days to a Purpose Driven Life", and study the Saddleback views toward church buildings and reaching to those who need it through programs like Celebrate Recovery.

 

[woodychitwn]

I don't know if any kind of church would attract me as I think spirituality should be a personal thing. The worst thing about most churches I've been to is that they assume you already know what to do. Granted, many of the people who go to church, do so regularly, but it's a bit intimidating to the rest of us.

The last services I attended, I sat in horror as three female virgins (little girls) in white robes presented flesh (crackers) and blood (wine) to the high priest to be sacrificed to the god for his sins. He then asked everyone else to line up and partake as well. I was reminded of how closely Catholicism is tied to the Pagan religions, and it creeped me out.

And I mean no offense to any Pagans on the board, as I have deep respect for all of the religions that have survived the rise of Catholicism. But nonetheless, I have difficulty in making a distinction between the different methods of worship.

So, I guess that in order for a church to pique my interest, it would have to allow for observation, with explanation, but without interference. Nothing is more off-putting than a religious zealot on a conversion trip. And dropping the rituals and hour-long speeches, would also help the appeal factor, but I’m not sure if that’s allowed. Anyway, I hope that helps some.

 

[ld50]

I would bet that most people would stick with the status quo when it comes to their church because they build relationships with people there and wouldn't want to lose that.

-not to be singling you out or anything

That is how people are tied to a certain religion through family. If you grow up with parents of a certain religion, you are almost certain to remain there. It`s what you have learned since a very small child, without exposure to other beliefs. That is almost how the definition of brainwashing is worded in the dictionary.

A church I would support would be one that is only open to adults, who make the choice purely. let the children decide when they have discovered their options, and grown up.

 

[Soundguy01tx]

woo hoo Gerald... you always seem to mention the same things I Would! lol... Saddle Back ... Song of Solomon ministries... lol... check out www.xxxchurch.org
It is a men's ministry... very cool.
--Bryan

 

[hvac man]

Well I was brought up in a nazerine church, a branch of cristian. I never liked going to church because it was like you had to impress someone else in the church and live by the rules that the church came up with, not the bible. I soon learned that you will have a closer relationship with god if you don't have to look over your shoulder all the time. I think church works great for some people who lack the self disapline to worship on thier own. The other problem I have had in the past with other church going christians is that they'er usualy the first to judge someone. I think church these days should involve discussion on the real things in life that pertain to todays views and thinking. I don't like the fact that you carry a label like catholic, mormon, church of god, babtist, ect... It should just be about people loveing the loard and living for christ through brotherly fellowship. Chuch should be a place that welcomes all not singles you out. Thanks for reading and I hope I didn't offend anyone, this is just my own view and personal experience.

 

[glfredrick]

Thanks for the posts. Keep it up!

Just to let some of you know where I am at... I am very familiar with all the current chruch models. I know personally some of the Saddleback staff and I keep close tabs on what a lot of the large church models are doing, both from a habitiual standpoint and from a transitional standpoint. I am a 15+ year student of church planting models, both successful and failed, and I have also already successfully started a new church in Wisconsin, difficult territory for church starts to be sure.

What I am looking for here is the opinions of the "man or woman on the street" instead of the consirered opinions of experts. I believe that church is for people and thus my desire to see what people want. I truly want to learn how to be "culturaly relavant" yet, I must also be true to the Scriptural mandates.

In plain English, as a pastor, I can lower (or remove) the barriers of everything EXCEPT the Cross.

Worship style is open to interptetation as long as it focuses on God.
Sermon style (or lack of one) is open to interptetation as well.
Liturgical issues are on the table.
Music is on the table.
Clothing style is on the table.
Seating arrangements are on the table.
Meeting times are on the table.
The only non-negtiable is the Gospel.

Hope this helps to clarify things.

Oh, and by the way - for those out there that have only been exposed to one religious context - ie, Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Episkopal, etc, there are a lot of other ways to do things and no one branck of Chrsitianity speaks for the others. PM me if this is confusing and I will try to answer questions.

Thanks
Pastor glfredrick

 

[ahhjaws]

I agree with what you think. My church is for anyone, you dress nice and respectful (me, usually jeans and collared T-shirt), music is both old style hyms and newer rock, Meetings are 3 times a sunday, and once sat. I think, and everything we talk about is about Christ. I love this church. Everyone is friendly and curtious to everyone else.

 

[hrbib21]

Originally posted by ld50
-not to be singling you out or anything

That is how people are tied to a certain religion through family. If you grow up with parents of a certain religion, you are almost certain to remain there. It`s what you have learned since a very small child, without exposure to other beliefs. That is almost how the definition of brainwashing is worded in the dictionary.

A church I would support would be one that is only open to adults, who make the choice purely. let the children decide when they have discovered their options, and grown up.

I agree to an extent, but all of our values are given to us by our parents and I don't see that as a bad thing. My children will be taught my beliefs as well. If they decide to go elsewhere at age 18, fine. But in the meantime, since I am responsible for their wellbeing and for molding them into decent, upstanding adults, they will accept my values.

Brainwashing has nothing to do with this. You have to remember on one hand, people in general don't take responsibility for their children (smoking, sex, staying out all hours, drugs, etc) and now you're saying that we should let them do what they want, at least that's what it looks like to me.

Think of it this way: I think that my child should attend college. I will spend all 18 years of his life up to that point preparing him for it. Is that brainwashing?

And, I don't think you were singling me out, ld50.

 

[hvac man]

Pastor glfredrick, I like what I hear and I wish there was a church around here that had a service worth going to. I might try going to the new church that has recently gone up here and see what its like. It is comprised of mostly young people that are looking for what I'm talking about. so says my step mom. Thanks for trying to inspire some futureistic thinking in an old practice.

 

[jjue]

My church is one that actually covers several of the categories that you had in the poll. Anyway, the best worship that I have found doesn't really depend on the style but on really on the flow of worship. A deep biblical study is great if the music/events of worship actually matches and flows into the discussion and sermon, and contemporary worship is great as long as the music flows without abrupt music style changes and worship events in the wrong place. There isn't a right and wrong way to worship, but if it doesn't flow, it doesn't work very well. My church really doesn't follow a particular patern week to week which really makes recording lots of fun.

 

[lonestar]

Most will probably vote they are happy with their current church, that's why they are there. Maybe you should ask what they look for in a church.

Personally, I look for a church that teaches from the bible. That's what I like about my church, they say "Don't take my word for it, look at it yourself". I also like the verses to be broken down and explained. Also, discuss modern topics and events from biblical viewpoint. Last couple of weeks he had speakers come in and discuss history of IRAQ and another on Stem Cell Research.

One thing I dislike about Catholicism is that noone really brings their own bible. They just read from paraphrazed pamplets and handouts and tend to not comment on current events.

 

[glfredrick]

My apologies to the people posting on this board for not being active in it for a couple of days. I had a family emergencey that involved my traveling about 1200 miles. Due to a bad marital situation, one of my younger brothers attempted sucicide.

Praise God, he has had a radical change of mind and is not in much better shape to face the future. My brother made his first profession of Christ as Savior yesterday, and that may be the beginning of an entirely different point of view for him.

I find so many people trying to fill the void in their life through sex, drugs, drinking, power, possessions, you name it, but the more they get, the more they want. Thre seems to be no end to the desire for more, that is until their true longing is satisfied, and that, I believe is a longing for true relationship, both horizontal (person to person) and verticle (person to God).

In all of my studies in Bible and theology, I have simplified the message of God down to a couple of points (for starters) that seem to make sense to a lot of people.

1. God created us for relationship, with Him and with others. He said that we were created in His image, and that we were "very good." Genesis 1:26 says, "and God said, let US create man in OUR image..." This points to the fact that God is trinitarian in nature, three in one, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and in His image, we are to be in relationship as He is in relationship, even with himself.

2. After the creation event, the very FIRST thing God did was to set aside Adam and Eve in marriage. He did this immedately to demonstrate that humans are to be in harmonious relationship with each other as we are with God. The Bible says, "the two are one flesh."

3. The begining of the breakdown of relationship began with the rebellion of Lucifer (the devil) against God. God in turn cast Lucifer down from heaven to earth, and in the guise of the serpant, he caused Eve to chose to follow himself instead of God. This in turn caused humands to void their relationship with God because they also rebelled against the single rule (test) that God had imposed on them.

4. The direct result of this break in relationship lead to other breakdowns, all of which follow and plague us until this day and beyond. When God came looking for Adam (and of course He already knew what had happened! God merely asks us to make us aware of Him.) Adam and Eve hid. They had severed their relationship with God. When confronted, they also began the process of severing their relationship with each other. Adam said, "The woman which You have given me..." and Eve blamed the serpent. We now live in a world where blame and lack of responsibility is the word of the day.

5. God is in the business of restoring us to right relationship with Him and with each other. horizontally, the marrige covenant and fellowship with other human beings ("Love one another as I have loved you," says God.) and vertically, through redemption (buying back) God resucures our relationship with Him. This is what the Christian life is all about. Love God first, with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and then love your neighbor as yourself.

This is what the church is about -- the teaching of reconciliation, and the instructuin in how to teach others the ministry of reconciliation, and this is what is missing in so many churches. We havedegenerated into a series of religous (legal) type issues and miss the main point! This is what I am working for, and praying that others will join into!

Let me know what you think!

Pastor Guy

 

[ggwannabe]

how about a church with no titheing...if church was a little cheaper i would go more but 10% is a lot!!!
something kinda between a cult and a pentacostal holy roller atmosphere.
fun yet full of guilt and fear!!!

 

[ExplorerMike]

Growing up ,I was an alter boy and a Catholic for 17 yrs..I had no choice in the matter. I as an adult went to the Catholic church again in 1990 and was disappointed by the people there.I then became a Christian and went to that for 4 yrs, twice on sundays and the Wednesday get together.My wife and I both were baptized into the religeon and did much bible study. The end result is , our kids go to an expensive christian school and we no longer go to church, as the members were very hippocritical and not the friends that we thought they were. So. we believe that the word of GOD, and the belief begin at home , not on a Sunday with a bunch of hippocrits. AMEN, Mike

 

[hvac man]

Sorry to hear about your brother, and I hope all will go well with him and your family. I'm glad he now knows there is someone listening to him at all times.

 

[AlaskanJack]

I'm with "Red" I need a BEER and Football church to be happy.