"Whining" while in gear and moving

[absolutbose]

My 91 Sport is whining while in gear. As RPM increases, so does the pitch. It does not make the noise while I am just reving the car in neutral. Against my better judgment, I took the car in. One place said they couldn't hear it, and the other place said that it was becaue I had the KKM filter on it. He also said that I should take the filter off, because it would eventually ruin my throttle body (please tell me he doesn't know what he's talking about). They cleaned my fuel injectors which they said were gummed up, and turned me loose. It didn't do squat. I never used to take my car in anywhere, becuase my dad was a mechanic, but he died in a plane wreck Christmas day. Any help would be apreciated.

Andrew

 

[Ira]

Andrew,

First off, my sympathy is with you about your dad. My mother in law passed away on my birthday (a week before Christmas) 2 years ago. It makes the season difficult to tolerate because it constantly makes you think of it when you hear Christmas.

I would first check the fluid level in the tranny. If this does not cure the problem, try running a constant speed as you are driving down the road and shift out of overdrive. This should cause the engine speed to increase and help to eliminate other possible causes of the noise. If the noise stays at the same speed after shifting, it would be between the wheel bearings and the driveline. If the noise also speeded up, I would then tend to believe it is in the transmission area. It would be a good time to change the fluid and filter if you haven't already.

As for your air filter to cause damage to the throttle body, I don't see how. I personally have mixed feelings about the fuel injector cleaning. My theory is that if you will run a bottle of injector cleaner thru the fuel tank once a month, professional cleaning is not necessary. On the other hand, some of the people who do not even know how to check the oil, well, maybe for them it is a good idea. What I mean by this is that if you clean it monthly, there is no reason to have a build-up. The people who do not do this will eventually get a build-up and it does need to be done. The repair shop probably just thought that by doing something for you and charging you for it, that you would be happy. Many people take their vehicles into the shop and feel discouraged if nothing is done and this is a way they can make you feel better along with making a tidy little profit. Without putting it on a diagnostic machine or removing the injectors, how could they tell they were gummed up?


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Ira
91 XLT 4x4
What do Playboy and National Geographic have in common? Just a couple of the places I will never get to visit.

 

[absolutbose]

Thanks alot for your help. I'll check the tranny today. Sorry I forgot to mention it, but it's a 5 speed manual. Does that make any difference. And ya, I do use an additive to clean my injectors, so I guess the cleaning of the injectors probably didn't do anything.

Andrew

 

[BGN]

Andrew,

You'll want to watch this 5spd carefully, believe me as I'm speaking from experience. My 91's 5spd ran dry a few years back and it cost me 1671.00 to replace it. Im sorry to hear about your dad.

Take care,
Barry

 

[ExploreMinnesota]

Andrew,

Does the whining sound change when you change gears? Does the whining sound continue to get higher pitched as you go to the higher gears?

I agree with the previous recomendations to make sure the fluid level is correct first.

I have 144,000 miles on my 91, and I've rebuilt be 5 speed twice already. You didn't mention the miles on your Explorer, but if the tracmission hase never been worked on, you may be in need of some new bearings. Each of my rebuilds cost about $1400.

Good luck, and I'm sorry about your dad.

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ExploreMinnesota
91 EB 4x4 Stock

 

[absolutbose]

I tried to get the plug out, but I didn't have a big enough wrench, and the crescent wouldn't cut it. So I took it to an oil change place, and they said that it sounded like I had "streched bands." But that was just from my description (they didn't actually listen). They wouldn't change the fluid, because they said that either it would correct the problem, or I would not beable to move the vehicle. Does anyone know what the deal is with streched bands? And how much it might cost to get some new bands?

Thanks,

Andrew

Also, my idle is awfully rough. I mean super rough. Is there something that the people could have done at the place where they cleaned the fuel injectors to make the engine run poorly so that I would bring it back?

 

[absolutbose]

No, the whining does not change depending on which gear it is in. The pitch of the whine is proportional to the speed of the engine. But the whine is only present while the car is in a gear. If I get going down the highway, and put it in neutral, the whining stops. I'm also pretty sure it does not whine while I've got the clutch in.

 

[Ira]

absolutbose,
I am by no means a tranny expert, but I thought only the auto trannys had bands. If I am wrong on this matter, someone please correct me.

Let me give you a word of caution about the "oil change places", BEWARE. Most of them are not qualified to even change oil, not to mention diagnose an engine. I have had too many friends who have went to various places like that and have lost engines because of them. One friend had oil and filter changed and had been gone less than 5 mins when he heard a thump while traveling down the road. About a minute later, he sat in the middle of the road with a locked up engine. He then found the thump was his oil filter as it fell to the road. I know other stories about drain plugs falling out, stripped out, etc. Most of the people working at these places are part timers, still in high school or just out, and working at minimum wage and just do not know or care. I am not slamming you guys here that are still in school or just out. At least you are reading here and trying to learn.

As I said before, at least check the oil in the tranny. It would be better to change it and see what the old looks like.

As for your rough idle, buy a code scanner (about $25) and a Chilton's or Haynes service manual and do a code scan. It should give you some information about what is going on. Once you have this, you will be able to fix the idle problem.

Sorry I can't be of more assistance, but you did come to the right place for help. I am sure someone here can resolve your problem.

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Ira
91 XLT 4x4
What do Playboy and National Geographic have in common? Just a couple of the places I will never get to visit.

 

[ExploreMinnesota]

absolutbose,

Ira is right . . . there are no band in your 5 speed. They are only in the automatic.

My guess is one of the bearings in the input shaft to the tansmission. Assuming the gears are okay, you could have it rebuilt with all new bearings and be okay. Make sure the fluid is full first though. Remember, it's automatic transmission fluid in there even though it's not an automatic. Check your owners manual for the proper specs on it.

As far as your rough idle is concerned . . . there is plenty they could have screwed up if they pulled your injectors out. To get to the injectors you must remove the upper intake manifold and the fuel rail. There is a gasket between the fuel rail and the lower intake manifold. There is a gasket between the fuel rail and the upper intake manifold. If either of those were improperly installed or the bolts or nuts not torqued properly, ou could have a leak there which will cause rough idling. Another possability is they forgot to attach a vacuum hose when the reassembled it. Most of your vacuume connections are on the left (driver side) rear of the upper intake manifold. Make sure all fittings have something hooked up to them (one will just have a plug). Make sure your PCV system is all hooked up. There is one vacuum connection way up front on the left side . . . a little hidden. Make sure that is hooked up too.

If all vacuum hoses are hooked up, buy a can of Gumout and spray (while the engine is idling) each individual vacuum hose and connection to see if any are leaking. Listen to the engine when you spray. It will run smooth when you hit the right spot. Spreay the area around the fuel rail too. If either gasket is leaking, the engine will run smooth for a second.

I just debugged a similar problem on my 91. It idles smooth as glass now.

Good luck!

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ExploreMinnesota
91 EB 4x4 Stock

 

[HIX]

Min.Expl. is right about the vacume lines. If you don't find any cracked ones check out the grommet that attaches the one from your pcv valve on your valve cover to the master cylinder(big round thing w/ the brake fluid resivor on it). Pull the grommet out and look in the center where the metal hole edges rub. When I dropped in the new engine it had a rough idle and mine was cracked there. I couldn't find one at the parts store so I just superglued it and it has held up fine for 10k. Some day I will get around to it. This week it is all new front bearings. The damn hub nuts backed off and shaved the metal washer. The peices of metal contaminated the bearings. I tried cleaning and repacking, but it looks like I will have replace them before the x-country move on friday. More just for piece of mind than anything else.

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HIX
91 Sport w/ 33s
"Put the hammer down, she likes it rough!"

 

[ExploreMinnesota]

HIX,

I think you're mistaken when you say the PCV hose connects to the master break cylinder. The PCV system ventalates the crank case into the intake manifold. There is, however, another vacuum line that goes from the power break housing (big round black thing behind the break fliud resivor) to the intake manifold.

Either way, all vacuum lines need to be checked for leaks.

Also, HIX, I'm curious to know how your spindle nuts could have come loose? There should be locking key on each one to keep the nut from turning. At least there are on mine.

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ExploreMinnesota
91 EB 4x4 Stock

[This message has been edited by ExploreMinnesota (edited 02-22-2000).]

 

[HIX]

I have the warn manual hub conversion. Only the inner nut has a lock washer and that is held on by the outer nut. So when the outer backs off there is nothing holding the inner on.

As far as the Vacume line goes....it comes directly from my pcv valve to the booster. All I can tell you is what I see and I see it is directly linked. Regardless, fixing a crack in the grommet will help.

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HIX
91 Sport w/ 33s
"Put the hammer down, she likes it rough!"

 

[JimJa]

Absolutbose
In the early years the Explorer had some problems with leaking intake manifold gaskets. In some cases they were fixed by just tightening the bolts. After this many years (assuming original non-replacement), they may have given up the ghost and hence the rough idle.

Re. transmission. I agree with ExpMN, probably a bearing. I believe the 5 sp manual is a Mazada unit-right? I lived in Japan for two years awhile back. Most Japanese, including engineers, just have no concept of how many miles we can put on a vehicle in the U.S. High mile vehicles in Japan have only about 40,000 miles. I knew an American school teacher that owned a Datsun 240Z 5sp. In five years it was NEVER out of 3rd. Japanese transmissions just can't handle the high miles and abuse that we give them in the U.S., particularly if it's a tranplanted design. I just flat wore out a Mazada transmission at about 120,000K. It had to be replaced in total. To expect a 5-sp manual to last without a rebuild is not being realistic. And unfortunatly, once rebuilt, they just don't seem to last as long before needing another rebuild. What's the fix, hell I don't know. The above is only my experience and some of you may have gotten high miles on yours, but there are a lot of you that have had manual rebuilds too. I dislike addtitives but in desperation I added Slick 50 to my manual transmission and it did seem to shift better. Don't know if it made it last longer, I sold the vehicle prior to it going away again. Remember too, overfilling is just as harmful as running low. Jim