Yet another T-Cases to mount to the V8 Thread

[Fusion213]

I wish I knew how hard it would be. I was planning on cutting a hole out of my floorboards and praying that the linkage on the t-case would work with a little modification, if not, i'll just make one.
Maybe stadx's t-case swap would have information because he went electronic.

 

[TarHeel085]

Originally posted by Warform
I wish I knew how hard it would be. I was planning on cutting a hole out of my floorboards and praying that the linkage on the t-case would work with a little modification, if not, i'll just make one.
Maybe stadx's t-case swap would have information because he went electronic.

yeah well, thats exactly what i did, it actually takes a good bit of modification if you have the full length console which you more than likely do, check out what i had to do here

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Tarheel, that install is awesome. Thanks for posting that thread. That's exactly how I want my truck to be. Us V8 Guys have a lot to play with in terms of parts, to fab up linkages, from Rangers, Broncos, and F150s.

It will need some careful hunting in junkyards.

We need to find out:
1) Will the t-case clear the frame?
2) Will the clock/index angle interfere with the Torsion bar mount?
3) How will overall length effect the rear driveshaft, is ours reusable in some form or another?
4) Will a 95-96 Explorer front driveshaft work with a fixed yoke on a manual t-case?
5) Will a stock manual linkage from the donor vehcile work?
6) Can a BW1354 linkage from a ranger work or be easily adapted?
7) Is the speedo hole on the t-case tailshaft the same diameter? Can our VSS plug in?

 

[John_Rock]

Originally posted by V8BoatBuilder
We need to find out:
7) Is the speedo hole on the t-case tailshaft the same diameter? Can our VSS plug in?

Your VSS sensor isn't in the top of your rear pumpkin?

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Originally posted by Johnstone
Your VSS sensor isn't in the top of your rear pumpkin?

Nope... Pre 98 ford put the VSS in the t-case(awd/4wd) or transmission (2wd) tailshafts. So it's something else to worry about

 

[TarHeel085]

what case exactly are you wanting to know about?

 

[RockRanger]

one more idea on this. You might be able to use some of the newer t cases out of dodge or a chevy. most of them used NP241 part time t cases. Might even be able to swap some inputs around and get an np231 out of a jeep or something to work. Dont just look at ford.

Matt

 

[Fusion213]

Yesterday I was at orchard and I saw this lifted bronco there, I waited for the guy to come out to ask if I can measure his transfer case.

Let me tell you, it's huge, I didn't take exact measurements but it looks like it'd be really close to the frame rail.

 

[Nitrous SSC]

anything else come of this swap?

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Not that I know of. I've had other projects on my truck, such as headgaskets and a valve job.

Lots of research has been done, just need to hit up junkyards and take measurements.

There is always the Advance Adapters and 1354/4405 route. Its been done before, there's even a writeup on it by StadX2

 

[Nitrous SSC]

I saw stadX2's route and I would think things could be simpler. He completly converts it over to the Control-trac and I personaly don't want that.

I'd like to keep it extremely simple with minimal wiring. Isn't there a way to simply just make it go 2wd/4wd/4-low. I mean I don't understand why you have to add another computer and change the GEM.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

I saw stadX2's route and I would think things could be simpler. He completly converts it over to the Control-trac and I personaly don't want that.

I'd like to keep it extremely simple with minimal wiring. Isn't there a way to simply just make it go 2wd/4wd/4-low. I mean I don't understand why you have to add another computer and change the GEM.

Short answer: Hell ya!

Long answer: StadX2 wanted control trac, and did all the work necessary because the system is VERY nice (when it works properly). The GEM and BW4405 combo allow everything from automatic, on demand, on-pavement AWD, 2wd, 2wd low, 4wd hi, 4wd low. Pretty nice.

This system is availible via two different routes for us V8ers. The first is to do what Stadx2 did, and make the rear of our transmissions like our v6 explorer counterparts with 25spline output shafts and 5bolt tailhousings. Then use the V6's BW4405 t-case. The second route is to try and shoehorn in a BW4406 t-case from an Expedition or Navigator. Identical in operation, but will bolt to the 4R70W without fuss as it has the correct 6bolt/31spline connection. Its HUGE.

The GEM and wiring were swapped to make it all work, since the electronic t-cases are computer controled. If you want a manual, lever operated t-case, no electronics are needed with the exception of transferring your VSS from the old case to the new case.

We've been looking for manual t-cases that will fit in the vehicles without transmission modifications and the expensive AA needed to do so, or much wiring involved. Stay simple, stay reliable. There is no reason (and this would be very clean, very doable) to use the AA adapter, and then a manual, lever operated BW1354 t-case. The BW1354 is essentially a BW4405 without the electronic clutch and shift motor. Its what all the hardcore V6s swap in, without crossmember or driveshaft modifications to their rigs. If you went this route, you would have to do everything StadX2 did, without the wiring.

The cons of going this route, rather than say the BW1356 out of an 80s fullsize Bronco are:
1) The transmission will need to be removed from the truck.
2) A $500 adapter from AA will need to be installed.
3) The case is theoretically weaker than the fullsize cases, which were designed for V8 applications. In reality, the cases are fine for stock V8s.

Either way, driveshaft lengths will need to altered. So that's not a factor for comparison.

 

[Nitrous SSC]

Oh I'd still want to stay electronic. But just without all the bells and whisles.

However if I could make the shifter install look clean enough and OEM like I wouldn't mind making a little cut in the floor board.

I'll call around to the local junkyards and see if can find one of the t-cases you mentioned for the expedition/navigator. I could go take some pictures and get some measurements.

My truck does damn good without 4-low but I'd enjoy wheeling much better with a 4-low. I know my truck wouldn't eat as much gas because I'm flooring it all the time. Also I'm sure my trans isn't a fan of it. The other thing is I can't pull people out that are seriously stuck if I actualy have traction. The TQ converter just stalls up.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Few bones to pick with your previous post.

1) You can't have your cake and eat it, too. There is no real way to make a simple electronic control system for an electrically shifted t-case. Even the BW1354e cases used in the 1st gen explorers require GEM control for just the 2wd/4hi/4low selection. Its not just as simple as applying 12v to different leads on the shift motor.

2) READ THIS ENTIRE THREAD! Hate to be an a$$hole here, but there are answers to a lot of your questions already posted. I don't mind bringing you up to speed on my findings, or answering specific questions, however I'm not a fan of repeating myself.

-There are pictures, and a link, to Tmsoko's installation of the BW4406 in his ranger (which has a longer wheel base). He had clearance problems with the gas tank and crossmember. Also, control for that case is going to be harder than the BW4405, since the Expedition GEM will not work in an explorer. Not sure if the Explorer GEM would work on it. That would be interesting to find out.

-There is a link to TarHeel's conversion of his V6 case, which details how clean the linkage can be if done right.

Here is a picture of it:

Originally found here:http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94477&page=2&pp=20

Sorry if that came out harsh, we're in this together.

 

[Nitrous SSC]

Few bones to pick with your previous post.

1) You can't have your cake and eat it, too. There is no real way to make a simple electronic control system for an electrically shifted t-case. Even the BW1354e cases used in the 1st gen explorers require GEM control for just the 2wd/4hi/4low selection. Its not just as simple as applying 12v to different leads on the shift motor.

2) READ THIS ENTIRE THREAD! Hate to be an a$$hole here, but there are answers to a lot of your questions already posted. I don't mind bringing you up to speed on my findings, or answering specific questions, however I'm not a fan of repeating myself.

#1. I'm not a transfer-case expert, I don't refur to them all by their model numbers. I don't study transfercases all day. I'd like to learn as much as I can. I'm sorry for thinking simple. I just don't understand how a computer needs to control a little shift motor.

#2. I did read the thread. There are just a few things I didn't understand and those are what I'd posted. You cleared it up with #1 on your reply.

At this point I'll just sit back and watch the posts about T-cases and be a ghost untill I know every T-case number by heart I guess.

 

[Fusion213]

I bought an NP208 a while ago and test fitted it.
Problems you will run into for an NP208 or larger, such as the BW4406:
They are ridiculously wide, the NP208 BARELY fit between the frame rails. The front output didn't look like it would clear the torsion bar bracket. It was a PAIN in the butt to get it between the gas tank and everything else, the BL helped getting it up there.
The rear driveshaft needs to be shortened, not sure on the front driveshaft, but since the front output is blocked, doesn't really matter. It also uses different threaded bolts than the bolts our bw4404 uses.
This guy posted on my cardomain page that he used parts from a ford np208 in a jeep np208 and it fit between the frame rails of a ranger very nicely.
So... my choices are between finding a jeep np208, swapping in the ford np208 parts and making some spacer between the t-case adapter and the t-case so space it.
OR see if an NP205 will fit, it should be narrow enough to clear the torsion bar bracket, the catch is that you have to modify the t-case adapter to clear the shift rails and build a crossmember that can hold that HEAVY transfer case. I've helped my friend monkey around with an NP203 and that thing weighed a ton.
The benefits of the 208 is the lower low, I think it's 2.61.
The benefits of the 205 is that it's bulletproof, it's downfall is that it has a crummy low of 1.98.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Matt -

Sorry about the harshess of my previous post. I WANT you to participate and ask questions. I'm not expecting you to be a t-case expert - I know I am not!

Danny -

What made you decide on the NP208? Why not the BW135x series from the fullsize fords? They are much lighter with aluminum cases.

Interesting about the Jeep 208. Both cases are driver's side drop, my only guess is that the input shafts and tailshaft bolts are different. I'm interesting in seeing your findings. How much did the BL help? Could you get the case in there without it?

 

[Fusion213]

Well, the 208 does have an aluminum case. The 135x series are larger units and suffer from lubrication problems after a certain part of the case wears down. I measured one of them from an f-150 and it was way too wide.

I still need to do more research on the Jeep 208 but a guy on cardomain, he's also on the rangerstation, had a write up of the jeep 208.
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/216733/9

The BL helped a lot in cramming in that 208, I had to tip the back of the TC so it was pointing upwards, then shove that part in and tilt the front, then I had to get the damn t-case to get past the transmission output shaft, after I finally did that, I slid that puppy on, to my dismay, it used different threaded bolts(DOH). So I ended up taking it off the next day and putting the 4404 back in. I did grind off a little bit of the 208 to help it fit better.

I'm not really sure if you could get the case in there without it, maybe the jeep case(if it isn't as long).

The 208 I have is out of an early 80s ford bronco, so it has a fixed yoke.

 

[Nitrous SSC]

What size BL do you have Warform?

The transfercase swaps you guys are doing in rangers I'm guessing are 5.0's right?

Thursday night I'll be working on my friends 97 F-150 V6 doing a CV joint. If it will help I could take some pictures and get some measurements. Let me know if it would help.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

I knew the BW 135x cases were big - didn't know they were that big!!!

I'll try to find out more about the 208 as well - and why the jeep case might be better.

Nitrous: Yea, people are swapping 5.0s into rangers and often using explorer engine/trans combos. We're all working with the 6bolt/31spline output shaft dealio. Measurements of the F150 case would be Awesome!!

We'll need:
-total case length from input shaft flange to rear of case
-Width from center of input shaft flange to left-most point on case
-Front flange to rear driveshaft yoke
-Center of input shaft flange to front driveshaft yoke
-Overall height, width, length....

anything else you can think of