Possible Sport V8s?

Now that I've decided that if I significantly increase the power in my 2000 Sport I will install a V8 I need to consider engine possibilities. I'm not very knowledgeable about Ford V8s since my Sport is the first Ford I've owned.

Of course the easiest would be the 302/5.0L since it came stock in so many of the 4 door Explorers.

The 351 Windsor engine would provide more power but I've read that the deck height is larger to accommodate the engine's longer stroke. It might not fit in the engine compartment.

The stroked and bored 302 to 347 would be about as simple to install as the stock 302 except for a custom tune but is fairly expensive for an OHV engine.

The 4.6L came with the 4R70W in 3rd generation Explorers and I like the idea of a SOHC V8 with all of the chains and sprockets in the front of the engine. However, I've read that the engine is wider than the 5.0L (probably due to the heads) and may not fit.

What I would really like is one of the engines shown below.

However, the 4.6L DOHC V8 is even wider than the 4.6L SOHC V8.

 

[techieman33]

A viper t56 would help with the gas mileage if you had enough motor, the 2nd overdrive is .5:1

 

[htrdlncn]

It is... but I was responding to the posts early on about whether to go with a 5.4 DOHC or a 4.6 DOHC. Heh.


I don't know much about the 4.0 SOHC (although I have one in my 02 Sport), but... is it the same as the 4.6, with just 2 cyls lopped off? Seems like it would be a simple swap? Maybe?

the 4.0 SOHC is the most modern cousin to the European 2.8 used in the Capri from 30 years ago. Its a 60 deg V . Ford V8s are 90deg and share nothing with the 4.0

 

[blueka]

I thought it was the OHV that was like the old 2.8's and 2.9s?


Si

 

[CDW6212R]

Good thread Dale, you are well on your way to getting started. The 347 built with much better heads/intake/cam/exhaust will easily make 400+RWHP. That alone will take care of almost all V6's. Note that the exhaust is a huge problem, not solved with bolt on parts. That's a huge subject I'd rather address after I've built mine.

the 4.0 SOHC is the most modern cousin to the European 2.8 used in the Capri from 30 years ago. Its a 60 deg V . Ford V8s are 90deg and share nothing with the 4.0

I thought it was the OHV that was like the old 2.8's and 2.9s?


Si

FYI, there have been people who 4.0's built with those 2.9 DOHC heads. It's not a good idea really, those head are not up to the flow needs of a 4.0 engine. It was cool to read about it and see the pictures though.

 

[htrdlncn]

I thought it was the OHV that was like the old 2.8's and 2.9s?


Si

ohv and sohc are basically the same engine just different head setups.
They are both 30 year old technology.
Nothing wrong with old tech just not up to the same level as the newer 300+hp V6s

 

[IZwack]

ohv and sohc are basically the same engine just different head setups.
They are both 30 year old technology.

Ooof - the two are very dissimilar.

 

[htrdlncn]

never owned an ohv so just quoting what I read..
____________________________________________________________________


4.0 SOHC 60 deg V6 & 4.0 OHV 60deg V6 Engine Differences:

The main difference between the Ford SOHC 4.0L and the Ford OHV 4.0L is that in a SOHC engine there is a camshaft sitting on the top of each cylinder head with the valves running directly off the camshaft. It doesn't rely on push rods, rocker arms, or lifters. The SOHC engine uses a jackshaft in place of a camshaft to drive a timing chain to each cylinder head. Three timing chains are used, one from the crank to the jackshaft, one in the front of the engine to drive the cam for the left bank, and one on the back of the engine to drive the cam for the right bank.

The OHV engine has the cam mounted above the crank. The cam and crank are joined in time by a timing chain. Lifters ride on the cam and push rods that extend to rocker arms in the heads which push the valves.

 

[CDW6212R]

Ford used the OHV shortblock to create the OHC, with slight changes to the block mainly. The whole induction above the shortblock is all different.

 

[htrdlncn]

so what I originally stated was kind of close to correct
the SOHC is a just a modernization of the OHV..

 

[CDW6212R]

Yes, it's a very good upgrade, except for the reliability of the new valvetrain.

 

[blueka]

I have a 2.9 V6 24v Cosworth engine back home... I wonder why they never offered that instead of the 4.0, it makes the same amount of power.


Si

 

[htrdlncn]

I have a 2.9 V6 24v Cosworth engine back home... I wonder why they never offered that instead of the 4.0, it makes the same amount of power.


Si

torque..
big heavy suv needs torque to get moving..
The Cosworth may make same hp but at a higher rpm and with little
torque on the bottom end. Makes a great sportcar engine but not so
hot for hauling the family and the boat to the lake.

 

[blueka]

it was ideal in the Granada Scoprio though, that thing went like a stabbed rat!


Si

 

[blueka]

To prepare for a possible double powertrain swap (4 door 5.0L/4R70W to Sport and Sport SOHC 4.0L/5R55E to 4 door) I decided to determine the engine/transmission related wiring differences. Using my Ford 2000 Explorer/Mountaineer Wiring Diagrams I generated an Excel spreadsheet containing PCM pin numbers, circuit numbers and associated wire colors, circuit functions and external connectors for the two engines. Besides allowing me to determine the only wiring changes needed for the 2WD powertrain swaps, I suspect the table will be useful when troubleshooting potential electrical problems. A text based version of the spreadsheet is shown below. If anyone would like a copy of the Excel spreadsheet just request it via a PM to me containing your e-mail address.

I concluded that no wiring changes are required. It is only necessary to disconnect existing connectors during engine and transmission removal and then reconnect them during engine and transmission installation. In general:

Disconnect PCM connector
Remove PCM
Disconnect the wiring at the starter motor
Disconnect main engine harness connector
Disconnect engine to body grounds
Disconnect engine to O2 sensors connectors
Disconnect engine to transmission connectors
Remove engine with wiring harness attached
Disconnect transmission wiring harness to O2 sensor connector (4R70W)
Remove transmission with wiring harness attached
Install transmission with wiring harness attached
Connect transmission wiring harness to O2 sensor connector (4R70W)
Install engine with wiring harness attached
Connect engine to transmission connectors
Connect engine to O2 sensors connectors
Connect engine to body grounds
Connect main engine harness connector
Connect the wiring at the starter motor
Install PCM
Connect PCM connector



NOTES:
If V8 function not listed, same as V6 function
S= splice, G = ground, C = connector
If more than one connector is listed, 1st is for the V6 & 2nd is for V8


PCM..V6 (E) Circuit..Function......................V8 Circuit........Function..........Ext Cnx
Pin #
1....315 (VT/OG)...Shift Solenoid B.................315 (VT/OG)......................C116P36
2....658 (PK/LG)....Malfunction Indicator.........658 (PK/LG).......................C115P6
.............................Lamp (MIL) Control
3....1144 (YE/BK)..Digital Trans Range...........1144 (YE/BK)......................C113P12
............................(DTR) Sensor (TR1).................................................C116P19
4....NA.....................................................NA
5....NA.....................................................NA
6....136 (DB/YE)...Output Shaft Speed...........NA
............................(OSS) Sensor
7....NA.....................................................NA
8....NA.....................................................NA
9....NA.....................................................NA
10...NA....................................................NA
11...NA....................................................NA
12...29 (YE/WH)...Fuel Gauge Sender............29 (YE/WH)...........................C115P10
13...107 (VT).......Data Link Connector..........107 (VT)................................C115P22
............................(DLC)
14...784 (LB/BK)...4WD Low Indicator...........NA
............................Switch
15...915 (PK/LB)...SCP Data Bus (-)..............915 (PK/LB).............................C115P3
16...914 (TN/OG)..SCP Data Bus (+).............914 (TN/OG)..........................C115P11
17...NA...................................................NA
18...NA...................................................NA
19...394 (OG/BK)..Load Leveling...................394 (OG/BK)..........................C115P28
...........................Acceleration Signal
20...NA...................................................NA
21...349 (DB).......Crankshaft Position...........138 (BK/PK)...Crankshaft Position..C162
............................(CKP) Sensor (+)...................................(CKP) Sensor (+)
22...350 (GY).......Crankshaft Position...........139 (GY/YE)....Crankshaft Position..C162
............................(CKP) Sensor (-)....................................(CKP) Sensor (-)
23...NA.....................................................NA
24...570 (BK/WH)..Power Ground...................570 (BK/WH)...................S105/G101
25...57 (BK).........Chassis Ground..................57 (BK).....................................G201
26...95 (TN/WH)...Ignition Coil......................526 (DB/LG)....Ignition Coil #1..C104
27...237 (OG/YE)..Shift Solenoid A.................237 (OG/YE)....................C118P14
......................................................................................................C116P34
28...924 (BN/OG)..Shift Solenoid D.................NA..................................C118P13
29...224 (TN/WH)..Transmission Control..........224 (TN/WH)...................C115P12
............................Switch (TCS) Input
30...NA.....................................................NA
31...NA.....................................................NA
32...311 (DG/VT)..Knock Sensor Return...........NA.......................................C199
33...NA.....................................................NA
34...NA.....................................................NA
35...392 (RD/LG)...Heated Oxygen Sensor.......392 (RD/LG)..........................C118
............................(HO2S) #12 Input...................................................C116P27
36...968 (TN/LB)...Mass Air Flow (MAF)...........968 (TN/LB)..........................C111
............................Sensor Return
37...923 (OG/BK)...Transmission Fluid............923 (OG/BK)......................C118P2
.............................Temp (TFT) Sensor...................................................C116
38...354 (LG/RD)....Engine Coolant Temp.......354 (LG/RD)...........................C159
.............................(ECT) Sensor Input
39...743 (GY)........Intake Air Temp (IAT).......743 (GY).................................C111
.............................Sensor Input
40...238 (DG/YE)....Fuel Pump Relay..............238 (DG/YE)........................C115P5
..............................Input
41...348 (VT).........A/C High Pressure............348 (VT)............................C115P37
..............................Cutoff Switch Input
42...NA....................................................NA
43...305 (LB/PK).....Message Center...............305 (LB/PK).....Not used.....C115P27
..............................(Fuel Flow)
44...NA....................................................NA
45...357 (YE/WH)....PCM to GEM....................NA.....................................C115P38
46...1017 (BK/WH)...Fuel Cap Indicator.........NA.....................................C115P13
47...360 (BN/PK)......EGR Vacuum Reg.........360 (BN/PK)..............................C184
...............................(EVR) Control
48...11 (TN/YE).......Tachometer...................11 (TN/YE).............................C115P2
49...1145 (LB/BK).....Digital Trans Range......1145 (LB/BK).........................C113P4
...............................(DTR) Sensor (TR2).................................................C116P28
50...1143 (WH/BK)...Digital Trans Range.......1143 (WH/BK).......................C113P7
...............................(DTR) Sensor (TR4).................................................C116P20
51...570 (BK/WH).....Power Ground...............570 (BK/WH)...................S105/G101
52...96 (TN/OG).......Ignition Coil..................527 (RD/LB)..Ignition Coil #2...C165
.............................................................................................................C104
53...971 (PK/BK).......Shift Solenoid C............NA......................................C118P10
54...480 (VT/YE)......Torque Converter............125 (DB/WH)......................C118P15
................................Clutch Solenoid.......................................................C116P38
55...37 (YE).............Keep Alive Power (B+)....37 (YE).................................C115P8
56...191 (LG/BK).......EVAP Canister Purge......191 (LG/BK)........................C115P39
................................Valve
57...310 (YE/RD).......Knock Sensor Input.......NA............................................C199
58...679 (GY/BK).......Vehicle Speed Sensor....679 (GY/BK)...........................C115P7
................................(VSS) Input
59...NA.....................................................NA
60...74 (GY/LB)........Heated Oxygen Sensor....74 (GY/LB)................................C169
................................(HO2S) #11 Input...................................................C116P10
61...393 (VT/LG).......Heated Oxygen Sensor...393 (VT/LG)..............................C113
...............................(HO2S) #22.............................................................C116P13
62...791 (RD/PK)........Fuel Tank Pressure........791 (RD/PK)........................C115P17
.................................Input
63...NA.....................................................NA
64...199 (LB/YE)........Digital Trans Range........199 (LB/YE).........................C113P15
.................................(DTR) Sensor (TR3A)............................................C116P12
65...352 (BN/LG)........Differential Pressure ......352 (BN/LG)............................C189
.................................Feedback EGR Sensor
66...NA......................................................NA
67...91 (VT/WH)........Canister Vent Solenoid....91 (VT/WH)........................C115P14
68...NA......................................................NA
69...331 (PK/YE)........Wide Open Throttle A/C..331 (PK/YE)........................C115P30
.................................Cutoff (WAC) Relay Out
70...NA......................................................NA
71...361 (RD)............Power (PWR)..................361 (RD).........................S101/C115
72...NA..........................................................561 (TN/RD)...Fuel Injector.......C107
.........................................................................................#7 Control
73...559 (TN/BK)........Fuel Injector #5 Control.559 (TN/BK).............................C160
74...557 (BN/YE)........Fuel Injector #3 Control.557 (BN/YE)..............................C168
75...555 (TN).............Fuel Injector #1 Control..555 (TN)..................................C164
76...570 (BK/WH).......Power Ground................570 (BK/WH)...................S105/G101
77...570 (BK/WH).......Power Ground................570 (BK/WH)...................S105/G101
78...97 (TN/LG).........Ignition Coil....................528 (PK/WH)..Ignition Coil #3...C165
...........................................................................................................C105
79...911 (WH/LG).......Transmission Control.......911 (WH/LG)......................C115P40
.................................Indicator Lamp (TCIL)
80...926 (LB/OG)........Fuel Pump Relay.............926 (LB/OG).......................C115P15
.................................Control
81...925 (WH/YE).......Electronic Pres Control.....925 (WH/YE).........................C118P6
.................................(EPC) Solenoid......................................................C116P33
82...NA.......................................................NA
83...264 (WH/LB).......Idle Air Control (IAC)......264 (WH/LB)..............................C156
.................................Valve Control
84...970 (DG/WH).......Turbine Shaft Speed......136 (DB/YE)....Output Shaft....C118P16
.................................(TSS) Sensor...................................Speed Sensor..C116P22
85...282 (DB/OG).......Camshaft PosItion..........282 (DB/OG)...............................C183
.................................(CMP) Sensor Input
86...347 (BK/YE)........PCM to A/C Cycling.........347 (BK/YE)..........................C115P35
.................................Pressure Switch
87...94 (RD/BK).........Heated Oxygen Sensor....94 (RD/BK).................................C113
.................................(HO2S) #21 Input
88...967 (LB/RD)........Mass Air Flow (MAF).......967 (LB/RD)................................C111
.................................Sensor Input
89...355 (GY/WH)......Throttle Position (TP).......355 (GY/WH)...............................C157
.................................Sensor Input
90...351 (BN/WH)......Reference Voltage...........351 (BN/WH)..............................C157
91...359 (GY/RD).......Sensor Signal Return.......359 (GY/RD)...............................S166
92...810 (RD/LG).......Brake Pedal Position.........810 (RD/LG)............................C115P4
.................................(BPP) Switch Input
93...387 (RD/WH)......Heated Oxygen Sensor.....387 (RD/WH)..............................C169
.................................(HO2S) # 11 Heater.................................................C116P15
94...388 (YE/LB)........Heated Oxygen Sensor.....388 (YE/LB)................................C113
.................................(HO2S) #21 Heater.......................................................C182
95...389 (WH/BK).......Heated Oxygen Sensor....389 (WH/BK)..............................C118
.................................(HO2S) #12 Heater..................................................C116P31
96...390 (TN/YE).......Heated Oxygen Sensor......390 (TN/YE)...............................C113
.................................(HO2S) #22 Heater..................................................C116P24
97...361 (RD)............Power (PWR)...................361 (RD).......................S101/C115P9
98...NA............................................................562 (LB).......Fuel Injector #8.....C108
...........................................................................................Control
99...560 (LG/OG).......Fuel Injector #6 Control..560 (LG/OG)................................C158
100..558 (BN/LB).......Fuel Injector #4 Control..558 (BN/LB)................................C161
101..556 (WH)...........Fuel Injector #2 Control..556 (WH)....................................C167
102..NA......................................................NA
103..570 (BK/WH).......Power Ground................570 (BK/WH).....................S105/G101
104..NA..........................................................529 (RD/YE).Ignition Coil #4........C105

ok, so I've just had a look at this and can't figure out the wire/circuit for the oil pressure sending unit...

any ideas? thanks

Si

 

[matt0248]

I believe the oil pressure sending unit goes directly to the instrument cluster not the PCM.

 

[htrdlncn]

While its a different vehicle the weight was close to the same,
My LSC which weighed 4250 (almost exactly what my Explorer weighs) with me in it ran 11.7@118
with a stock 302 shortblock
stock aod transmision
stock suspension
mods were Novi supercharger, Edelbrock heads, Victor intake,50lb injectors,custom tune,3.73 gears, except for the gears I bought everything used on the Mustang forums,
figure $5000 max in mods to put a 4000+ brick in the 11s with mostly stock parts,
got 25mpg on the highway and lasted 100,000miles and 300 drag passes before i blew it up,
no way no how can you do that with a V6 sohc/5R55E combo without scattering a lot parts,not to mention because of the HUGE Mustang aftermarket parts are dirt cheap to make a monster 5.0 engine
I will mention the earlier 5.0s (pre 92) came with forged pistons stock while the Explorer V8s have the hyperpathetic pistons stock which are pretty useless with superchargers,
If I would have had a choice I would have never bought a V6 but with the sport I was stuck with it

 

[CDW6212R]

... hyperpathetic pistons...

Excellent, I love that spelling.

My first LSC was only about a 15.6 car with Edelbrock heads and intake. The Mark VII is a tough car to get to move. My current version has rarely been driven because of the dead paint. I finally had to rebuild the suspension and do tires, so it's road worthy again.

Anything with a 302 based engine is so much easier to do that other Ford engines.

 

[htrdlncn]

cool, I had a red SE as well, had a cool two tone interior,got it for $500!
Later I threw coils on it and 2000 Cobra rims and a cowl hood on it, was a cool and cheap ride for while, both my SEs ran 15.7-16.0 bone stock, 15.1-15.3 with 3.73 gears all else stock
I agree on the engine, for hotrodding you cant beat a 302 because of the huge Mustang aftermarket

 

[2000StreetRod]

V8 drivetrain swap abandoned

I've abandoned my plan to replace my SOHC V6 drivetrain with the 5.0L V8 drivetrain for several reasons. I haven't found a suitable donor vehicle after looking for more than a year. It would involve two non-operational vehicles (my Sport and donor) for an extended period of time with potential confrontations with the neighborhood home owners association. V8 exhaust manifold improvements are expensive, of questionable availability, are more restrictive than optimum because of engine compartment space limitations, and complicate periodic maintenance (replacing spark plugs and wires). I have very limitied knowledge of the V8 but have gained considerable experience with the SOHC V6. I have two new sets of replacement timing chain cassettes and the OTC-6488 timing tool kit. The V8 takes up more engine compartment space than the V6 restricting some modifications/enhancements. The fuel economy of the V6 is better than the V8.

Since driving my Volvo 850 turbowagon I have gotten used to the acceleration when the boost kicks in. I would like to feel something comparable in my Sport. I will avoid future modifications to my vehicle that might complicate the possible incorporation of a centrifugal supercharger in a few years.

 

[Joe Dirt]

Dale- will the 850 stick around until you put a helper into the Sport? You know- for boost fix?