Possible Sport V8s?

Now that I've decided that if I significantly increase the power in my 2000 Sport I will install a V8 I need to consider engine possibilities. I'm not very knowledgeable about Ford V8s since my Sport is the first Ford I've owned.

Of course the easiest would be the 302/5.0L since it came stock in so many of the 4 door Explorers.

The 351 Windsor engine would provide more power but I've read that the deck height is larger to accommodate the engine's longer stroke. It might not fit in the engine compartment.

The stroked and bored 302 to 347 would be about as simple to install as the stock 302 except for a custom tune but is fairly expensive for an OHV engine.

The 4.6L came with the 4R70W in 3rd generation Explorers and I like the idea of a SOHC V8 with all of the chains and sprockets in the front of the engine. However, I've read that the engine is wider than the 5.0L (probably due to the heads) and may not fit.

What I would really like is one of the engines shown below.

However, the 4.6L DOHC V8 is even wider than the 4.6L SOHC V8.

 

[Limited02]

Guys, if they can shove a flipping 5.4 Supercharged lightning motor in a Ranger, then a NA 4.6 can work as well.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/trucks/163_0406_ford_svt_lightning_bolt_ranger/index.html

Go with a 5.0/4R70W and be done. I'll be looking forward to whatever you decide.

 

[RickOTR]

I've had the Explorer Express supercharger on my Sport for the last three years with 400K + miles on it and have had no problems what so ever. I don't know why so many people are down on the V6 SOHC engine. About four years ago, I put a 4.6 in an 2WD sport and the only major problems was that the 4,6 is three inches wider and 1.5 inches taller that the V6. I had to cut out some of the heater plenium so that the block would fit into it. Total cost to do this swap including transmission and other miscellaneous mods was right around 7K. Personally, I would stick with the V6 and supercharge it.

 

[2000StreetRod]

4.6L in a Sport questions

RickOTR, thanks for the response. Here are some questions I have about the 4.6L (I assume SOHC and not the DOHC) you put in a Sport:

1. What year/generation was the Sport?

2. Did you use the stock radiator cooling fan or did you have to switch to an electric fan because of reduced clearance?

3. Did you use the stock 4.6L exhaust manifolds? If so, did they interfere with the steering shaft?

4. Did you retain the air conditioning system?

 

[RickOTR]

The Explorer I used was a 98 Sport that had the 4.0 SOHC 2WD. The donor vehicle was a totaled 2001 Mustang GT. I used most of the A/C unit but retained the OEM heater plenium from the 98 Ex. The Explorer radiator did fine with no overheating issues after 2000 miles in desert heat aroundPalm Springs California with temps averaging close to 120 degrees. I used an electric fan from a Crown Vic PI like the one I have on my 97 Ex.The clearance is a little over 1 inch so it a tight fit but it will work. as for the exhaust, I used the JBA headers but it too was a very close fit and the guy I took it to for the exhaust had to use sone real craftsmanship but was successful without any major flow restrictions. It took me about 14 months from start to finish and was very involved. If you plan on going this route, get the engine, trans, PCM, and complete wiring harness from the donor vehicle. You will save yourself alot of aggrivation in the long run.

 

[2000StreetRod]

4.6L & 351W eliminated

RickOTR, thanks for answering my questions. It sounds like the 4.6L installation is a tighter fit than I want so I'm going to eliminate it from consideration.

I did a little searching on the internet and learned that the 351 W was still being used in the F350 thru 1997 but still had a distributor. Being an electrical engineer I prefer computer (PCM) controlled ignition therefore I'm eliminating the 351 W.

So that leaves the 5.0L/302, with possible upgrades to the 331 or 347. I want to thank everyone who posted comments for their inputs. I guess my next activities are to repair and sell my Tahoe so I have room in the garage for another Explorer and start learning about the 5.0L on the forum.

 

[IZwack]

Wuhait - youre an EE? Well then flippin build a MegaSquirt and have fun!

 

[pwrshft99]

It's is possible to convert a 5.8 to a distributorless ignition.

A company called Alternative Auto used to lengthen the shaft on a explorer 302 cam sensor, allowing it to fit a 351 and sending a signal to fire coil packs. I would think the front accessory mounting and e,haust would be more of a challenge.

 

[Highroller]

Ford did use the 351w that long and in it's later years received a roller cam. If you did decide to go the 351w route than the Lightning intake lower can be combined with the Explorer upper to make a package deceivingly stock in appearance. I picked up a roller 351w from an F250 and planned on putting in my X, but was able to get alot more from the stock 302 set-up than I thought. I have had the Ford Motorsport & Torque Monster headers on post 97 "GT40P" motors, which both resulted in noticable gains. In addition to the headers a "Full" exhaust, cold air intake, and a tune will make for one hell of a package. Then if you would like just a bit more, have the stock converter worked over a bit and add a custom roller grind that will complement the X more. I currently run the Trick-Flow Stage 1 cam and hate that thing, has no balls down low and then pulls like a freight train up top! What are you truely wanting from performing a motors swap? The reduced weight of a Sport combined with a 300hp range 302 would make one heck of a driver......

Charles

 

[2000StreetRod]

4.0 > 5.0 > 331

I like to do upgrades in stages. That way I get to enjoy the benefits of each improvement. Also, I enjoy experimenting and I learn something from each incremental upgrade. A major upgrade increases the length of time the vehicle sits and risks loss of interest or adequate funding. I enjoy performing the upgrades as much or more than experiencing the driving performance improvement.

My latest plan is to exchange my current V6 powertrain with a 5.0L powertrain doing just the essentials needed for reliable transportation. That way if I run into insurmountable problems I'll have a minimal amount invested. That will be followed by a series of bolt-on improvements that can be reused on a high performance engine. Then I'll acquire or build a second 331 short block that can hold up to 350+ rwhp. I prefer the 331 stroker over the 347. I believe the 347 is less reliable due to the short piston length. Then I'll swap the 331 short block with the 5.0L short block.

 

[2000StreetRod]

302 stroker kits

I've been reading some about stroker kits for the 302 V8 and learned that they apparently are designed for Mustangs using a lighter weight flexplate and front crankshaft balancer than an Explorer. It's probably not hard to find a suitable Mustang flexplate but a lightweight balancer of the right diameter with crankshaft timing teeth for the ignition poses a challenge. Also, it's best if the entire rotating assembly is provided to a machine shop with balancing skills and equipment that may not be available locally. It seems like a lot of complications and expense to achieve another 29 (331) or 45 (347) cubic inches of displacement.

I wonder if the 351 Windsor engine has the same weight and diameter balancer as the Explorer 302. If so, and if the 351 could be fitted with a synchronizer (as mentioned by pwrshft99) and utilize an Explorer balancer then the 351 might be compatible with the Explorer PCM after a custom tune. I read somewhere that the 351W only weighs 70 pounds more than the 302.

 

[pwrshft99]

Im thinking maybe an aftermarket trigger wheel might work or making the sensor mount adjustable.

Really though I probably use what i had. As long as it gets balanced with everything else it should be ok. I doubt your going to be turning this thing to 6K lol

Also wanted to add a 306 biy itself is a decent power upgrade. A few inches dont sound like much but the bore really helps unshroud the valves.

A 10 to 1 306 with any aftermarket head plus full exhaust and a good tune would be a stout dailly driver.

 

[2000StreetRod]

351W timing?

. . . I picked up a roller 351w from an F250 and planned on putting in my X, but was able to get alot more from the stock 302 set-up than I thought. . . Charles

From the RockAuto photo below for a 1994 Lightning there are no timing teeth on the crankshaft balancer.

It must bolt to something else on the crank because there's no surface for either a v-belt or serpentine belt.

With no crankshaft timing teeth and just the distributor how are the fuel injection pulse start times determined? Is it from the distributor? Or maybe the start opening times are not synchronized with the intake valves.

 

[blueka]

subscribing with interest.. I'll be putting a 5.0 in my sport as soon as money allows...


Si

 

[Highroller]

Like PWRSHFT99 stated, http://www.alternativeauto.com/waterbox/wb_archives/edis.html is a source for retro fitting the EDIS to the 351w to retain the stock 5.0 ECM and harness. The crank trigger would be the least of the worries, I am concerned about the distributor being lengthened and having expensive TM headers that will most likely/will not work with the 351w. My GT40P heads have alot of work done, so I will be reusing them on the '96 roller short block. I have both motors at my place and I will compare some parts to make sure they interchange or be made to do so.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Not 351W - more reasons

I found an article on the internet about replacing a Mustang 302 with a 351W: 351 Engine Swap


There are just too many changes required:

The 351W uses a front-sump oil pan vs the 5.0L rear-sump oil pan. Possible associated purchases: oil pan, oil pickup tube, oil pump, dip stick and housing.

The 351W requires a 28-inch/ounce balance factor vs a 5.0L 50-inch/ounce balance factor. Possible associated purchases: flexplate, balancer, balancer spacer for serpentine belt alignment.

351W taller deck height means wider spacing between heads preventing use of 5.0L lower intake manifold for fuel injection. Using 351W fuel injection manifold from Lightning may necessitate use of hood scoop for clearance.

5.0L A/C compressor and power steering pump mounting brackets are not compatible with 351W.

Exhaust manifold outlets will not reach exhaust pipes due to higher deck height.

I've decided that if the 5.0L does not have enough power with the stock stroke after adding the typical performance mods I can add a supercharger.

 

[ford99_1979]

Dale would you be interested in a good running 1996 5.0L explorer motor? When I complete my 347 swap soon I will have my old motor. Minus the front accessories.

PM me if you are

 

[2000StreetRod]

thanks for the offer

Dale would you be interested in a good running 1996 5.0L explorer motor? When I complete my 347 swap soon I will have my old motor. Minus the front accessories.

PM me if you are

Thanks for the offer but I'll be looking for a complete 2000 4 door in good condition to use as a V8 powertrain donor and a V6 powertrain recipient.

 

[pwrshft99]

Dale would you be interested in a good running 1996 5.0L explorer motor? When I complete my 347 swap soon I will have my old motor. Minus the front accessories.

PM me if you are

If you are doing the 347 build, how are you addressing the issues that 2000streetrod has brought up ??

Im just curious cuz i had planned a stroker build for my EX on the side and want to know how to take care of the headaches before i even get started.


The main issue for 351w into explorer swap is probably the accessories. Hood clearance on Mustangs can be had by bending the hood with a brick and a few washers. Its not that much taller and should be room underhood an EX.

From what i understand though, the 5.0 explorer has a unique accessory layout, not similar to a 5.0 mustang or any factory 351.

Some answers may lay in 95-96 Broncos and conversion vans. Im almost positive 96 was last year of Bronocos, which never came modular, so itd have to be an OBD2 compatible 351. I wonder if it has a distributor or coil packs ?? I wonder about the accessories ??

Starting to think for a toy a 351 would be pretty simple and fun. Run a carb and just an alternator in the front. Except for headers its sounding easy lol.

 

[ford99_1979]

If you are doing the 347 build, how are you addressing the issues that 2000streetrod has brought up ??

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230212&highlight=28oz+balancer

Read this thread.

There are a few things needed for a 347 apart from the 302. The balancer which is pictured on post #5 from the above link. It is a 28oz balancer machined to have an explorer timing ring installed. Because the factory 50oz explorer balancer is not going to work. So I have one of those 28oz balancers and then I had to track down a 94-95 cobra pulley because it has almost the same diameter of the explorer pulley. CDW6212R helped me out alot with the balancer and info on this. The mustang gt has a different diameter which would be undesireable. The cobra pulley is hard to find because Ford does not make that part anymore and there weren't many of those cars built. I was lucky to find one, it's not impossible but just difficult IMO.

I ended up going with a Lentech street bruiser 4R70W and a 11.5" Lentech 2600RPM torque converter. The flexplate was also supplied by Lentech and sent to the engine builder to be balanced with the rotating assembly.

One other key piece was picking up an explorer donor motor and sending to the engine builder to use things like the oil pan and timing cover etc.

There is alot more items that need to be qddressed such as fuel pump, injectors, MAF, Throttle body, headers, exhaust, tuning etc.

I found that it's all the little things add up. It cost alot more than I budgeted originally, and I'm not even done yet.

Just got a wideband O2 sensor from Henson Performance that will be used for datalogging so James can provide me with a proper tuning. I still need to get the exhaust re done with high flow cats from the torque monsters to my existing MAC exhaust system.

I'm far enough into this that I don't want to cut corners now, because what's the point of putting in a high performance built motor with a crap exhaust or sub par tuning..... If you know what I'm saying.



So as others have said a 351 would be alot more work and custom stuff than a 302 based block. It would suck to start such a project then get stuck and the project never gets finished.

Also don't under estimate the costs involved in doing something like this as I have learned.

 

[Highroller]

I have a '96 351w from an F250, it has a distributor. My '97 Econoline is 5.4, so the '96 ecobox will be a 351w. I believe the 351w was used up until '97 in the F250's and discontinued the following year. My question would be, can the after market crank triggers be used in substitute for the much thicker units used on the exploder?