03 Mountaineer 4.6 AWD, need help to diag drivetrain noise. No play in suspected pts

[expressonate]

Hello, I have a 2003 Mountaineer with a 4.6, AWD, 3rd row seating, towing package, and a remanufactured transmission. Aprox 164k miles. Original drivetrain components except the transmission. Has recieved diff and transfer case flushes ect same owner since 2004 (my Aunt)

I have a very typically sounding wheel bearing noise, sounds like a helicoptor taking off (wub wub wub) decreases and increases with vehicle speed, not related to it being in gear or in neutral. Unrelated to what gear, or if accelerating or decelerating. Doesnt change if turning slightly left, slightly right, or going straight (shifting load in the vehicle)

It's comming from the front. Unable to determine what side. Apparently it was more noticable after new tires (general grabber hts) They have no choppyness, the steering wheel doesnt shake. I do not suspect the tires to be the cause.

Upon inspection, the RF (passenger front) wheel bearing is newerish, and I have a reciete for it (MOOG brand) from aprox 1.5 years ago. The warranty is 2 years. The LF (drivers front) is unable to be dermined if oem or has been replaced. No recites indicating replacement, leading me to believe it's factory (has oil change recites from as far back as 2004. 3" folder of paperwork)

Neither bearing has play in the assembly. Brakes look good (no grooves, rust spots, or other defects), differential has some play (i can rotate the driveshaft about 1/8" or so before it "engages", I suspect that's normal, the rear's about the same) Differential has no play. Axle shafts are definitely original, but, no movement or other visible defects. u-joints are good (rear are recently replaced)


Where should I go from here? What else can I use to determine the cause? I'm NOT a fan of shotgunning parts at it at $250 each. The parts store says if I remove the wheel bearing from the RF, and give them the reciete, they will warranty it. I'm going to lean twords doing that. I also have a 2012 Escape that I could swap the tires/wheels onto, I think, to try and eliminate the tires as a cause.

Thanks for the help
~Nate

 

[expressonate]

60 views and no replies ? Too wordy? Nobody wants to share their opinions on this? Talk is cheap, which is what I am looking for. Just looking for a direction to go in.
Thanks everyone
'Nate

 

[Tophat1962]

i would start with the tires those Tires are a very questionable brand, especially the HTS kind with several sidewall problems. Try a friends set of tires for comparison if possible. I am searching for replacement tires for my explorer as well and have reviewed several dozen and will probably be going with the BF Goodrich long tour T/As my self. Just a thought and from the sound description you gave it very possibly is a tire.

 

[Number4]

The acceptable wheel bearing play is .005". Suffice to say you probably won't notice that. Have to remove the tire and use a crow bar to wedge against the bearing and knuckle.

If it sounds like a bearing, it usually is. Even if you can't "notice" play.

Moog is a mixed line and isn't necessarily a quality product. I'd start with the Moog bearing as its under warranty and would be easier to remove.

Also, 60 views doesn't mean they were all members, so they may not have been able to post.

 

[Number4]

i would start with the tires those Tires are a very questionable brand, especially the HTS kind with several sidewall problems. Try a friends set of tires for comparison if possible. I am searching for replacement tires for my explorer as well and have reviewed several dozen and will probably be going with the BF Goodrich long tour T/As my self. Just a thought and from the sound description you gave it very possibly is a tire.

Go with Michelin LTX M/S and you will not be disappointed.
http://m.michelinman.com/tire-selector/category/suv-crossover/ltx-m-s/tire-details?frompc=yes
There's a reason this tire design has been around for so long.

 

[expressonate]

i would start with the tires those Tires are a very questionable brand, especially the HTS kind with several sidewall problems. Try a friends set of tires for comparison if possible.

I own a 2012 Escape, so theoretically I can put the Mountaineere wheels/tires on the escape, and see if they are noisy. I have sold at least 20 sets of these tires, and not gotten any complaints of noise or otherwise. I will attempt that this afternoon.

The vehicle is listed for sale. It will NOT be getting replacement tires again (these have around 4k miles on them)

For the bearing, would it not be reasonable to figure if the noise does not change when going sligtly left or slightly right that it wouldnt be the bearing?


Thanks for the replies.

Happy New Years!!!
~Nate

 

[Sock Puppet]

Sounds like wheel bearing(s) to me.

 

[expressonate]

Sounds like wheel bearing(s) to me.

Again, wouldnt veering slightly left or slightly right change the noise?

 

[Number4]

Again, wouldnt veering slightly left or slightly right change the noise?

Not necessarily.

 

[Tophat1962]

Again, wouldnt veering slightly left or slightly right change the noise?

Well I cant respond with certainty to your Mountaineer but when I had a front wheel bearing replaced on my wifes 05 Impala yes the noise would change with the steering direction changed.

 

[expressonate]

I was mistaken on my timeline. The RF wheel bearing was replaced 2.5 years ago, and has a 3 year warranty. The drivers front appears original. Removed both front wheels, front brake calipers/rotors, and unbolted the upper ball joint. I removed the CV axle assemblies from the wheel bearing. The drivers front, original, from 2003, with 164k miles on it spins perfectly by hand. The passengers side, with about 10k miles on it over the last 2.5 years felt gritty. Removed the 3 15mm bolts holding the bearing to the knuckle... One bolt broke... Bearing seized to knuckle. 20-30 full force swings with a 5lb mallet (causing significant damage to the side and face of the bearing) and the bearing seperated from the knuckle. I feel like a "bolt in" assembly made out of steel should possibly bolt into something NOT MADE OF A DISSIMILAR METAL!!! Seriously, huge pain in the rear.


FWIW, the bearing definetly has a difficult time turning, and feels very gritty... It felt slightly gritty before bashing the snot out of it with a mallet, now it's considerably moreso gritty (weird huh? )

Went to the parts store... It's a holiday...
Vehicle currently disassembled out doors. Oh well, such is life...


Will post further results after reassembly.
~Nate

 

[Tophat1962]

Well, at least this is a post somebody later can relate to and find an answer to their problem. Hope it all works out.

 

[expressonate]

Reassembled vehicle. Boots on uppers were cracking. Decided to replace, without removing the control arms on the vehicle. Worked fine. Used duralast componants, worked fine.

Test drove vehicle. Noise is no longer present.

Guess a good way to diagnoise an issue without throwing parts at it I suppose, is to disassemble said componants. Still had absolutly no play. With the wheel and tire on the veicle, rotating the wheel felt normal. With the axles still in the wheel bearing, but no wheels on the front of the vehicle (awd) rotating the hub assemblies also felt normal.

Removing the cv axle from the bearing, and it felt a bit gritty.

Live and learn I guess
~Nate

 

[pet575]

With these bearing assemblies it is pretty common to not detect any play and still have the bearing be the cause of the issue. Glad you figured it out. I was actually starting to think about something like a CV joint since it didn't change from side to side.

Also, the comment about the Grabbers being a highly questionable tire isn't something I'd necessarily agree with as a general statement. For light/average use they are perfectly fine. If you're talking about towing 7K lb. loads or something that might be different.

 

[expressonate]

Truly glad that I got it figured out, replaced, and contacted a potential buyer to setup a test drive, only to have the transmission die again. 4th time in 200 miles... This was a $2400 rebuild, with a 12,000 mile warranty/1 year warranty. It's a bit upsetting...