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Hydro Assist Fuel Cell. Increase gas mileage 50%?

Discussion in 'Hybrids, Electric, Hydrogen, Bio-diesel, E-85' started by mp88, March 17, 2008.

^^Searches ExplorerForum.com^^





  1. mp88

    mp88 Member

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    First off, I wasn't quite sure where to post this.

    In my little morning internet searches for performace parts, I came across a link to this system.

    http://www.energyempire.com/hafc.html

    Proficient product or scam?
    The manufacturer((s)?) claim that this product, with all the computer tuning (done for $100), will give you a minimum of a 50% increase in gas mileage.

    The claim is also that some cars will receive over a 100% increase in fuel economy, such as a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic.

    Opinions?
    Objections?
    If Aldive added this could his explorer get 40mpg?:p:
     
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  3. briwayjones

    briwayjones Manual Master

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    I don't know about that specific system whether it's a scam or not but there are systems like that that produce Hydrogen add it to the fuel mixture and can increase mileage. There are other threads on here talking about that. I don't think it's likely to give you a 50% increase in mileage. Maybe in something like a Honda Civic but not an Explorer.
     
  4. aldive

    aldive Elite In Memoriam

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    Very interesting.
     
  5. BrooklynBay

    BrooklynBay Moderator & long time member. Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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  6. Turdle

    Turdle This is my custom user title Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Moved
     
  7. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human-Animal Hybrid

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    Too bad its not true. I could add it to my Prius. I get 48 -50 now; with that thing I could get 100 mpg.

    My opinion is that it is in fact a scam. The reason I believe it is a scam, is that for it to work the way they describe, it would violate the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. How do you use electrical energy from the alternator to split Hydrogen and Oxygen, then get back more energy to power the car? It would be a perpetual motion machine.

    Anyway that's just my opinion.
     
  8. calisoundmix

    calisoundmix Active Member

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    I totally agree with you, it's also a little suspicious that they have so many testimonies from mechanics, yet they can't name a single mechanic by name or the shop he works at that endorses this product. the way our patent system works you don't have to prove a product works, you just need a unique idea, there have been countless news stories over the past 30 years about saving gas with water and ways to increase your fuel economy dramatically, yet not one of them has panned out.
     
  9. dlk

    dlk New Member

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    I disagree, at least in part, and here is my opinion....

    According to that site, there are 4 different parts to the system. The 'Covalizer' additive sounds a little like adding acetone to the fuel, and might help a little. The 'HAFC Optimizer' is just a computer add-on, so I don't know anything about it. The 'HAFC Vaporizer' is magnets on the fuel line, which is a load of poopoo. The main part of the system is the Hydrogen fuel cell, which is supposed to produce hydrogen and oxygen gas from water. If it works, I believe it might increase mileage by as much as 20%. Might.

    The reason I don't think it would be a 'perpetual motion machine' is that it adds water as a second fuel source. If the water can be converted to gas easily enough it would be a very cheap and readily available fuel. I know that's a big IF, and I am NOT saying that this thing works, only that it is feasible.

    I have heard of a system that uses the electrical energy created by the alternator to power an electric super charger, which made the engine more powerful, so why couldn't you use electricity to get better mileage somehow?
     
  10. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human-Animal Hybrid

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    Got any dyno tests from an independent source to show how much power is gained by the electric supercharger?
     
  11. dlk

    dlk New Member

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  12. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human-Animal Hybrid

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    The left side of the graph is interesting - it indicates that the thing kills your available hp below about 3800 rpm. It isn't a perpetual energy scheme like the hydro assist - it pulls energy out of your battery (833 W ) to provide boost - but your alternator must recharge the energy (pulling power from the engine) . Good thing it only works at WOT, otherwise you would probably be killing batteries and alternators every week.
     
  13. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human-Animal Hybrid

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    On a Yahoo Discussion group I belong to, (PTS - Prius Technical Stuff), someone asked "Is this Real" referring to the water4gas website. Here is one of the responses that I thought was very clear (and I agree with):

     
  14. fourplay

    fourplay New Member

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    wow i just lost interest in trying out these "fuel saver kits"
     
  15. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human-Animal Hybrid

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  16. CHADD

    CHADD New Member

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    hho injection isnt a scam... and doesnt really give you a 50% increase... more like a 30% increase....


    it does help make the engine run cleaner, slightly more power... and better gas mileage...

    *gas mileage* being the key word..... you are supplementing hydrogen gas for gasoline... so you are still burning the same amount of total fuel... but less gasoline since your injecting hydrogen into the system... so its not really defying any laws or what not... buddy is working on a kit for his V6 F150... gets 29-30mpg with a supplemental kit installed.... here is a link...

    http://www.v6f150.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14610

    my apology if the link offends anyone from being directed to another site... just helping getting some info out there...

    Im getting ready to make a kit for my 97 eclipse... if it works good... going to put it on my 2000 explorer...
     
  17. MrMcKague

    MrMcKague New Member

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    Has anybody tried hydrogen in a 2005 XLT?
     
  18. BrooklynBay

    BrooklynBay Moderator & long time member. Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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  19. rileyrs

    rileyrs Active Member

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    thought id just add this in:

    my grandfather knows a professor at csu and he did testing for two years on hho, and he seemed to think that the best way to do it was use stainless stell plates put together, for the most output.
    and as far as moddifying the computer, he said not to use the defices that tell the computer to inject less fuel, (like efie) as its not as reliable, but to actually have a way to constantly modifly the computer on demand, which takes lots of equipment.
    those were just his tips to do, IF your going to try it
    he tested it on 3 different vehicles, and his conclussion was that its far more effective on a carbed vehicle where you can quickly change and monitor the fuel given to the engine.
    also another thing he said about it that many things online lie to you about is that the hho isnt actually burning along with the gasoline, since it doesnt burn nearly as efficiently in a gas engine, so really, the hho is just helping the gasoline burn more fully, which is why being able to fine tune it is essential.
    btw all the ppl out there who say it doulbed there mileage is fake, and even a 30% increase in not realistic,most like people that are getting this much of an increase is because they are using devices like efie too much, and are running way lean, and are gonna have serious engine damage soon.

    the final conclussion after our conversation is: its not a magical easy way to improve anything on your car. you may gain 1 mpg, if you put tons of time and money into a good system and tons of tuning.
    all the cheap kits off ebay arent gonna do any good.
    and just like dogfriends post said, the power you use to create it, really isnt made back up with the hho, so there is minimal differences in total effeciency.
    so basically, its not a driveway mod thats gonna save money, you probly wont lose more than a 100 bucks if you do it yourself, but to do it well, its going to have to be an expensive system, with lots of time an money put into it

    i spoke with him for a while about hho and learned alot , and it convinced me not to do any kind of hho install, hoping to gets tons of power and mileage.
     
  20. dantefumi

    dantefumi New Member

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    Second Law

    from the verry little information you have given on your analysis of the second law of thermo, I don't see how it would violate it. What are you inputs, and how did you obtain a measurable amount of energy input. What are you stating are your out puts? What efficiency are you assuming? Have you tested the First law of Thermo dynamics? What was your procedure? I'm sorry for all of the questions, but being a chemical engineering student with a minor in Mechanical and Petroleum Engineering for Oklahoma State University I can't help but question your methods. It's what any good engineer would want to know...
     
  21. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human-Animal Hybrid

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    Read post #12 above in this thread.
     

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