Wheel Bearing or Worse?

[mikeinri]

Hey guys, I'm hearing this noise that is extremely loud but also difficult to describe (and I have no idea what to seach for)...

This is an 04 Explorer, 104,000 miles, V6, automatic.

It started about a week ago, but was very subdued in the beginning. Especially when starting from cold, I was hearing a low growling noise, especially when coasting in lower speeds. It would go away after a few seconds, and not come back for days.

Now, it has progressed over the last two days. It sounds like a screaching, scraping noise, again, especially when cold, and for at least the first few minutes of driving. Amazingly, it goes away, especially when the speed is over 40 or so.

The noise is so loud, it is rather scary to even want to drive the truck, but there are no obvious other symptoms (such as shaking, etc.).

The noise only happens when the truck is moving, and sounds like it is coming from the drivers side, rear.

I got under the truck, there are no wet spots on the ground. The very rear end of the rear drive shaft appears to be damp (some sort of oil), but not dripping. I can't find anything that looks loose or broken. Even all the CV boots and clamps appear to be solid.

I thought it might be brakes, but the noise doesn't change when the brakes are applied or released. I tried the e-brake, that works normally (holds and releases OK).

I also have lots of body bushing noises, but those have been ongoing for quite a while, so I doubt that's it.

HELP!!!

Mike

 

[jrford]

wheel bearings, very common. . .

 

[mikeinri]

Quick update.

I think it's the wheel bearing too, it's at the shop right now. The noise is so weird, it's not consistent, sometimes sounds like scraping, screeching like metal rubbing together, comes and goes, etc. Mostly now, it's happening all the time.

One thing I noticed last night was a looseness in the rear end while driving. I noticed that the rear driver tire appeared to be loose (moving in/out while driving and turning the wheel back and forth). VERY scary...

I got out and pushed the top of the tire in with my foot, and it definitely appeared to be loose, and was making a noise as if the lug nuts were loose. I checked, and they were tight.

Hopefully, it's something covered by my warantee, or I'll be back here looking for repair advice...

Mike

 

[mikeinri]

Unbelievable. Here is the list from the dealer:

Tires 615
Align 99
Front Bearings 902
Rear Bearings 646
Front Pinion Seal 232
Rear Pinion Seal 254
Front Sway Bar Bushings 135
Harmonic Balancer 380
Front Brakes 583
Rear Brakes 736
Total 4582

I don't even know where to begin, other than obviously, I'm not paying anyone $1300 for a brake job.

And the warrantee company said the warrantee ran out 400 miles ago...

Mike

 

[my pos mounty]

H O L Y S H Y T !

Time to find yourself a good mechanic that doesn't want to retire every time he sees you. I don't see the listing on that bill for "dinner" "kissing" or "substantial amounts of **** lube".

 

[pw1981]

Holy crap I think that mechanic is trying to take you for a ride. Did you go to a stealership for that quote?

I am getting more confident in my DIY auto repair, but even when I went to a mechanic for everything I never paid anywhere near that for those kind of repairs.

In specific example... $135 for bushings? The list time I bought a bushing it was about $5 and installation took about 5 minutes.

Wow. Just wow. Get a second opinion.... quick.

 

[mikeinri]

I know that I CAN do all (or at least, most) of this work myself, but the real point of contention is that the warantee expired 400 (yes, four hundred) miles ago, and no one wants to know me anymore. Everyone admits that there's no way all of this stuff happened in the last 400 miles, but that's as far as the discussion has really gone so far.

This estimate came from a dealer closer to me than the one where I bought the truck, I took it to the closer place due to the nature of the wheel problem (seems ready to fall off, is that possible from a bad rear bearing?).

Anyway, I took this estimate to the original (purchased) dealer, and they're going to look into what they can work out with the warantee company. I'll let you know how that goes.

Sadly, in my experience, this estimate is typical of a lot of repair shops, dealer or otherwise. Local mechanics tend to be better, but the bigger places like to charge by the book.

Barring everything else, my biggest issue with this estimate is the fact that they want to charge full labor each individual line item. For example, full labor cost for replacing the brakes, when they will already have to take them off to get to the bearings!!! I had something like that happen to me at a local truck repair shop (with my Ford RV), have never gone back since.

Mike

 

[my pos mounty]

I hope it all works out for the best for you, and I wish you luck. You know how they are though, "Why didn't you bring it in 398 miles ago if you had that problem?" Like your life should revolve around the warranty.

 

[DLinkOZ]

I agree that full labor for each item is a horrible business practice. A local shop to me doesn't do that, for instance I took my truck in for an alignment after replacing my upper control arms and they found a few additional things wrong - right front hub and both lower ball joints. They quoted me a whopping $45 labor for the hub (half hour), since they'd already be into that side doing the lower ball joints. I already intend on doing it all myself, so have no need for even a reasonable labor arrangement, but it's still good to see that some shops will do the right thing and pro-rate the book time when they're already 80% of the way into one component while doing another.

 

[mikeinri]

BTW, what exactly is the harmonic balancer? I did some searching here and it looks like a crankshaft pulley (at least on older Explorers), but the service person was explaining it as if there was a motor to it that was shot???

Mike

 

[my pos mounty]

A harmonic balancer is the front pulley on the crankshaft. The only motor attached to it is your trucks engine.

 

[Carguy3J]

A harmonic balancer is the front pulley on the crankshaft. The only motor attached to it is your trucks engine.

Well, that's not entirely accurate. On some vehicles/engines, the harmonic balancer and crank pulley have been combined into a one-piece unit. However, they are not the same thing.

The crank pulley, is exactly that. It is a pulley driven by the crank, which in turn drives your accessories. The harmonic balancer, on the other hand, is a vital engine component which serves to dampen harmonic vibration generate in the process of combustion/engine operation. Assuming you had an engine which used a seperate pulley and balancer, you can easily run the engine without the crank pulley installed, assuming you had another way of circulating water throughout the cooling system (such as on a test stand, with a remote water pump). On the other hand, any engine would quickly shake itself apart, if run without a harmonic balancer.

There are several different styles of harmonic balancers. The most common, certainly on OEM applications, is one which uses a rubber "ring" to bond an outer metal "ring" to and inner "hub". The torsional "flexing" between the two halfs are what allow the balancer to do it's job. Over time, the rubber can wearout, dryrot, and/tear and lose it's bond with one or both of the metal halfs. An persistent oil leak, which causes the balancer to remain soaked in oil, or other fluids, for a long period of time can hasten it's failure.

I can't tell you if the mechanic was being truthful about your balancer's condition, but if he was, and it's bad, it needs to be replaced ASAP. You may want to speak with James @ Henson Performance about upgrading to an underdrive crank pulley/balancer combo while your at it.

 

[Carguy3J]

Unbelievable. Here is the list from the dealer:

Tires 615
Align 99
Front Bearings 902
Rear Bearings 646
Front Pinion Seal 232
Rear Pinion Seal 254
Front Sway Bar Bushings 135
Harmonic Balancer 380
Front Brakes 583
Rear Brakes 736
Total 4582

I don't even know where to begin, other than obviously, I'm not paying anyone $1300 for a brake job.

And the warrantee company said the warrantee ran out 400 miles ago...

Mike

Align 99 ---Not unreasonable, especially if it includes the alignment cams.

Front Bearings 902 -rediculous - I'm guessing a good portion of this is the inflated price for OEM parts. Even good aftermarket ones are still expnensive though (about $140each). Around $600 total would be reasonable for a shop, Once you factor in labor, tax, shop supplies,etc... (brake cleaner ain't cheap!)

Rear Bearings 646 - Again, very high, but it is a PITA to do these, especially pressing the old bearings out, particularily if you rode on them bad for a long time, and the hub "fused" to the bearing.

Front Pinion Seal 232 - technically this job requires gutting the diff,possibly several times, to replace the crush sleeve, and set proper pinion depth and preload.

Rear Pinion Seal 254 - same thing as above. It's a much bigger job then it looks like.

Front Sway Bar Bushings 135 -- not too bad if it includes end links,as well as frame bushings+labor. Frequently, the end links are rusted, and you end up having to cut the bolts.

Harmonic Balancer 380 - A big chunk of this has got to be the parts. As I said, you'd be better off buying a performance underdrive pulley/balancer.

Front Brakes 583
Rear Brakes 736 ------- Unless these include all new calipers, hoses, and e-brake hardware, it's high Remeber, however, that OE rotors alone are prob. $70 each. Not that I would pay that much for them, but that's what you get when you go to the dealer.

Perhaps you should try getting an estimate from a local independent shop?

 

[mikeinri]

Well, the engine has been idling a little roughly for a little while, I just assumed it was just in need of a tuneup. Is there any specific engine damage could be caused by a harmonic balancer on its way out?

I'm still waiting for a reply from the dealer to help determine my next move with these issues.

Mike

 

[my pos mounty]

Well, the engine has been idling a little roughly for a little while, I just assumed it was just in need of a tuneup. Is there any specific engine damage could be caused by a harmonic balancer on its way out?

I'm still waiting for a reply from the dealer to help determine my next move with these issues.

Mike

Check this link out for what the dealer is saying about your harmonic balancer, and what one bad one looked like when the OP discovered his. Might be something you want to check yourself.

 

[zpaperboyz]

OK this is insane. I replaced my front left hub 24,000 km ago because the berings went, it was an immediate dud, the abs sensor went on it in two days, now no warranty and the ABS sensor is gone on it. Anyone else have this problem? What hubs are you using as replacements? I need a good strong one.
Any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[mikeinri]

I saw that link when I searched, but I'm having trouble figuring out what looks "bad" in those pics? What are the real signs to look for? If I run the engine and look under the hood, will there be any abvious behavior problems?

Mike

 

[my pos mounty]

I saw that link when I searched, but I'm having trouble figuring out what looks "bad" in those pics? What are the real signs to look for? If I run the engine and look under the hood, will there be any abvious behavior problems?

Mike

Ok, I "borrowed" a pic from that thread (thanks 2000streetrod) and if you look at what the green arrow is pointing at and what I have circled in red, it should NOT look like that. That is the harmonic balancer (circled in red) that has seperated from the crank pulley.

 

[mikeinri]

OK, I think what you're saying is that the circled part should be inside of / flush with the pulley (not sticking out like a gopher)?

Mike

 

[my pos mounty]

yep.