Stx beam pivots?

[Explorer23]

I've been planning on running a set of cut and turn beams in the near future and have heard a lot of the go fast guys use the old "high rider" Stx beam pivots. I haven't heard of anyone on here doing that so please enlighten me. Is it just for a little extra lift or? I've tried searching to no avail but on other sites it seems everyone and their grandma does it on rbvs.

 

[Maniak]

The STX brackets are IIRC 1.5" longer than the stock explorer bracket..

I'm running cut/turned beams from BTFabrication (vendor here) with stock brackets.

I did reinforce the passenger side bracket to keep it from breaking/ripping the frame.

I got the reinforcement idea from my old Duff RA brackets. They had that piece that bolted to the side of the frame and I never had issues with the bracket. I did find some stock brackets that had started to rip at the junk yard which is what prompted me to look into reinforcing it.

Here is my reinforced bracket installed.

Modified stock axle pivot - shot 2 by maniak_az, on Flickr

~Mark

 

[sirhk100]

The stx brackets will allow for a bit more clearance on bump travel.

If you think about it... Say you're in your stock pivots and compress the drvr beam till it's bottomed out on the bumpstop. If you clear enough, that should be whats stopping your compression, not your tire in the wheel well or something else. So picture that scenario... Now leave your beam compressed into that bumpstop and take your pivot point and drop it down about 1.5". Your beam is going to pivot around the bumpstop and your tire is going to in turn compress further up. It's basically a way to gain a bit more bump at the tire and is generally accepted as a good medium without diving into really big drop brackets that tend to break from too much leverage and forces being shoved thru them.

That's the basic concept at least as to what/why people use them...

 

[sirhk100]

whoops, double post

 

[Maniak]

As I understand it, it's your spring that determines where normal ride height is and how compressed the spring can get. Moving the Axle pivot doesn't change that.. At least I cannot comprehend (at this moment) how moving the pivot down helps travel since the Axle pivot joint isn't limiting it. If it was a post style (think end of a stock RA) then I could see it helping since you have a limited range of motion.

Also, one thing to remember though is that most c&t beams are made for 4-6" of lift. By using a longer axle pivot bracket (1.5" longer) you have moved the same c&t beams available lift while being alignable up 1.5 inches to 5.5 to 7.5"...

Just something to remember when making/ordering c&t beams if your not going to run stock pivot brackets.

~Mark

 

[sirhk100]

You're assuming stock coilbuckets and spring setups. The gofast guys aren't typically using those so they can mount the coilover where ever it needs to be to get around that issue. With that in play, your bumpstop is what's stopping your up travel during design so if you lower your pivot point that in turn raises your tire's compression stopping point. You then set that as your fully compressed point on your coilover mounts.

 

[Maniak]

You're assuming stock coilbuckets and spring setups. The gofast guys aren't typically using those so they can mount the coilover where ever it needs to be to get around that issue. With that in play, your bumpstop is what's stopping your up travel during design so if you lower your pivot point that in turn raises your tire's compression stopping point. You then set that as your fully compressed point on your coilover mounts.

Ahh.. that makes more sense.. I couldn't figure out how it would help using plain old coils. I do have different shock mounts and am running long front shocks (32" long IIRC)... With coil overs you have all kinds of control, which I don't really need, yet

I'm not too versed in the "go fast" setups... I'm more of a crawler that likes the suspension to be able to soak up bumps but I don't take it past 50mph in the wash.. The rear suspension just can't keep up.

~Mark

 

[sirhk100]

Yeah, mine is borderline go fast but I've got better toys in the drive for those urges. I built mine primarily as my daily driver with crawling in mind while having the gofast look and comfort from the pavement to the point where I shift into low. Now if only my low was lower! LOL

My rear is definitely my limiting factor as well although I just saw the completion of a build using the exact same leafs our race truck runs with the exact same shocks I'm currently running under my expo that's pulling 20" of travel with NOTHING coming thru the floor and into the cab!!!! Mine may go under the knife someday down the road after seeing this latest build! I'm a bit jealous and only a set of leaf springs and some sweat and cussing away from maybe copying that setup! LOL

 

[Explorer23]

Wow thanks for the info guys, here I thought I knew it all. I didn't know there could be benefit to drop brackets. So is it a must have for longer travel? If so I'll probably have to make my own. I was looking into BTF beams (6in lift) and I have not aligned the ttb myself yet so I'm still kinda new but is there a camber adjustment other than where the spring sits? Or should I let them know when I get my beams what pivots I'm using if not stock?

 

[Explorer23]

Ok ok ok haha I just saw the last couple posts maybe I should add that I'm looking into running coil overs as well. I was aiming for about 50/50 travel in the shock at ride height. Sound good? Steerings up in the air as to weather or not I go stock, stone crusher style or $wing $et. I was just trying to determine if these brackets should go on the gotta have it, gotta fab it or not worth it list.

 

[Maniak]

When I talked to them I asked how much lift it was made for and he said 4 to 6 but the edges of the range are fuzzy (may not align with 4" lift springs etc)..

I didn't think of asking him to custom make me a set...

As for how to align.. You use Cams that go around the ball joint to adjust the camber. On a 4x4 front end its 2.75 degrees max that you can adjust out.

If your not using coil overs, the lower axle pivots aren't going to give you more travel without messing with coil buckets etc.

I have also noticed more jacking of the suspension with the cut/turned beams when off camber than the 2.5" drop brackets we had before (same springs). The cut/turn did give us some more ground clearance though which is one of the reasons I wanted it, plus braggin rights

~Mark

edit: I just saw your 2nd post.. so it will matter for you with a coil over. Also, last I checked, rockcrusher won't sell their kit for explorer/rangers I need something else.. my stock setup (tie rods) are binding at full flex.

 

[sirhk100]

Not to toot my own horn but I just recently finished the build up for the most part on mine. Front end stuff starts on post 25 basically if you wanna skip all the stuff from the beginning up to there regarding my goals/plans and rear end build up.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=381341

I'm not using any drop brackets and I'm swinging right around 14". My up travel is stopped by my bumpstops but what dictated where those were was my radius arms. If mine had been a little shorter or had a jog in them to allow a bit more clearance at the frame I could've got more compression travel out of it. As it sits though I'm almost perfectly mid stroke on my shocks when at ride height. If I was starting over again from scratch there's a few things I'd have probably done different but so far overall I'm really happy with how mine performs in the rocks. I just wish low was lower (Atlas 2 case will fix that) and at speed, unless you get really creative your up travel in the rear is likely going to be your biggest limitation.

 

[sirhk100]

another double post! Dumb computer!

 

[Explorer23]

Thanks for the help maniak! I may pm you if I have any more specific questions when the time comes. As for the steering I've heard that but haven't called to confirm. I like the setup except for the Heims but swing set would be even better. I would pay a shop to do it but being in Ohio I doubt any shop knows what swing set is.

 

[Explorer23]

Sounds like if my ultimate life goal for my truck is 14" I could get that from stock pivots and stock width beams?

 

[Maniak]

Not to toot my own horn but I just recently finished the build up for the most part on mine. Front end stuff starts on post 25 basically if you wanna skip all the stuff from the beginning up to there regarding my goals/plans and rear end build up.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=381341

I'm not using any drop brackets and I'm swinging right around 14". My up travel is stopped by my bumpstops but what dictated where those were was my radius arms. If mine had been a little shorter or had a jog in them to allow a bit more clearance at the frame I could've got more compression travel out of it. As it sits though I'm almost perfectly mid stroke on my shocks when at ride height. If I was starting over again from scratch there's a few things I'd have probably done different but so far overall I'm really happy with how mine performs in the rocks. I just wish low was lower (Atlas 2 case will fix that) and at speed, unless you get really creative your up travel in the rear is likely going to be your biggest limitation.

Can't wait for truckhaven so I can see your setup up close.. Pictures just aren't doing it justice...

I guess its time to measure my front travel. Where do you measure it at? At the hub? I'm pretty sure I have more than 12" of travel..

This is with the older, shorter springs.. I'm running longer ones now.

Truckhaven-mlk 2012 -5 - close up by maniak_az, on Flickr

Right now my tie rods bind, axle shaft hits the the engine cross member right about when my tire hits the air box.

~Mark

edit: the above pic is with stock width beams and stock drop brackets

 

[Explorer23]

Looks like a solid axle in that pic. Good flex. I always understood wheel travel to be measured roughly at the hub.

 

[sirhk100]

I've always measured mine at the hubs.

If you're needing heims, look at ruffstuff specialties! Most of theirs come with the threaded bungs to weld into tubing and the pricing is exceptional! I don't have a whole lot of time on mine yet but have first hand friends with quite a bit of use on theirs and so far they seem to be every bit as good as FK or other top brands.

From that picture alone I bet you're more then 12"... I honestly might be more then 14" myself, I'd actually have to go back and read my thread again, it's probably mentioned in there. LOL I measured at one point but honestly, numbers like that don't stick in my head very long. LOL I built an entire race truck yet I can't tell you how much travel it has. LOL

 

[sirhk100]

LOL, okay, curiosity got to me so I went back thru my build thread and found this... I guess this is what I'm cycling. LOL, see told you I don't really remember this type of info. Some people are all about the numbers and that's fine. Myself, I don't really care, I just want it to work.

Officially I'm cycling exactly 15" with 7" of bump and 8" of droop from ride height basically. Shock tabs are cycling 11.5" and I'm running a 12" stroke shock so I should be golden.

 

[Blue91Ex]

this isnt related to the cut and turn beams, but i have been tryign to figure out what you need for a regular lift other than cut and turn. do you still need the drop brackets that you guys are talking about if you just to a coil lift? if i was to do a 3" longer coil would i need to use a 3" drop bracket? sorry if this isnt related enough but this seems to have the most info on these drop pieces..