Powerdyne BD-11a versus Powerdyne XB-1A dyno numbers - need some input

[Blown]

Misremembered old school V belts...............help, please send Prevagen.

 

[CDW6212R]

That looks great, excellent work to machine that flat. I used a Powerbond replacement balancer for my white truck, those are a quality choice for a decent engine not needing an SFI unit. If you push the rpm's above 5500, I would not use anything that isn't SFI rated. The Powerbond is a type that should be less prone to losing the outer ring than the OEM type, SFI is another level better still.

 

[MuscleJunkie]

shop sent over some WP8 files and this expanded Dyno sheet. Will these wp8 files have what is needed to understand what is happening in these runs? Anyone here can read these files?? Here is the Dyno sheet. The Dyno pull times and the bottom can be matched to the previous ones I posted

Also, when asked the shop about IATs during the pulls they commented:

“ Avg. air charge temp was below 120F. After the pulls you could feel the difference between before and after the intercooler.”

 

[Blown]

Max's of 393HP and 457ftlbs of torque @ the crank.

Lambda is Air Fuel ratio based on 14.67:1 Lambda of .80 X 14.67 = Commanded Fuel = 11.73

The bottom is boost at RPM, @3,000=2.5lbs, 3,500=4lbs, 4,000=4.5lbs, @4,500=5lbs, @5,000=7lbs.

Are you running the stock cam? A little more boost and perhaps a mild cam change would get over 450 at the crank.

 

[MuscleJunkie]

Max's of 393HP and 457ftlbs of torque @ the crank.

Lambda is Air Fuel ratio based on 14.67:1 .80 X 14.67 = Commanded fuel is 11.73

The bottom is boost at RPM, @3,000=2.5lbs, 3,500=4lbs, 4,000=4.5lbs, @4,500=5lbs, @5,000=7lbs.

Are you running the stock cam? A little more boost and perhaps a mild cam change would help get over 450 at the crank.

Yes, stock cam. So the WP8 run files I have, what will they show?? I’m trying to understand the difference in these two sheets. Use run time a bottom for comparison. Does everything seem normal.

It seems the 3.45.19 runs shows different on the two sheets??

 

[MuscleJunkie]

Here are the files they sent

RunFile_1.wp8

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

RunFile_2.wp8

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

RunFile_3.wp8

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

datalog8_bwfe_dyno.csv

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[Blown]

I can't help with WP8 run files. Perhaps a dyno program to read them?

I do see the differences on the same dates. It is due to the"X" axis at which each starts. They are the same curve but the blue one has an earlier start point at 2,600rpm vs the other at 2,750rpm.

I looked-up running .wp8 and came up with Dynojet.com for software downloads.

I tried more boost and then cams for my engine in Desktop Dyno (DD). The stock cam is great down low for torque, but even a mild aftermarket cam has more duration and lift. I duplicated your build in DD. I got it very close and swapped in a mild "Comp Magnum 206/206" Cam (206/206 duration) with .48/.48 valve lift vs Explorer 176/197 .442/.448.

 

[MuscleJunkie]

I can't help with WP8 run files. Perhaps a dyno program to read them?

I do see the differences on the same dates. It is due to the"X" axis at which each starts. They are the same curve but the blue one has an earlier start point at 2,600rpm vs the other at 2,750rpm.

I looked-up running .wp8 and came up with Dynojet.com for software downloads.

I tried more boost and then cams for my engine in Desktop Dyno (DD). The stock cam is great down low for torque, but even a mild aftermarket cam has more duration and lift. I duplicated your build in DD. I got it very close and swapped in a mild "Comp Magnum 206/206" Cam (206/206 duration) with .48/.48 valve lift vs Explorer 176/197 .442/.448.
View attachment 447036

So the free Dynojet software is what is needed to see the Dyno runs. The files have also afr and boost. I’ll post a clearer sheet later

So with this DD sheet you posted - I am reading is this is engine hp? Am I reading it correct at over 500 hp?? Can you share all the information that you input into the system so I understand completely. Thank you.

 

[MuscleJunkie]

Here are the runs broken down by RPM

3000 RPM

4000 RPM

4500 RPM

5000 RPM

5500 RPM

6000 RPM

 

[CDW6212R]

I still think you have a solid combination. As they noted on the Corral, belt slip is a high likelihood with the small blower pulley. If you get the blower speed up to 50k or so, then the power should be excellent given a proper A/F and timing tune. Watch the injector duty cycle as you get closer to the end goal, keep it under 90%. That extra idler pulley could also be a little flimsy, the support seems mighty long and narrow. I hope I can modify these stock brackets some, I'd like a vacuum pump at the bottom below the tensioner, plus a stronger tensioner mounted in its place.

Keep going, when you get it close and start thinking of a new final engine, then the top rpm selection becomes big for building that engine. The blower may support 6000rpm easily, but maybe not and 5500 might be the best. The transmission might play a part, how it shifts that high and with the power it has, how does it feel etc.

 

[Blown]

The tranny can be tuned very effectively to take advantage of the engine build power/curves, gear ratio, and torque converter.

Desktop Dyno 5 (DD) is pretty accurate, they say within 5%, but you can screw-up inputs like any program.

Long Story: I'd like to run DD and offered cam advice only because I already had results of that cam in my build thread and your build is almost identical to mine. I may do a cam down the road, but I have come to other conclusions in that thread.

It took years the get Desktop Dyno back. I was a fan of DD2000 and DD2003. I bought, but saw they were pirated, shut down, and it likely took some time to make it compatible with windows 10 & 11. It's back and I appreciate it. I have spent time utilizing DD. I set-up three of my own blower builds and have compared it's accuracy to real world dyno graphs. I am happy it is available and am checking my current build now. I am going to limited my usage here, I won't give details on my inputs, nor output request as one should buy Desktop Dyno 5. It works well, I encourage everyone who is building to get it and it is not expensive. One can look at some of the output I have posted to see the accuracy of DD and changes I am making based on research, help here, and DD on my build.

Desktop Dyno 5 allows these Inputs:
Environment - temp humidty etc
Engine - 302 Explorer Short Block (Bored and/or stroked)
Heads - GT40P
CR - 9:1
Fuel -Gasoline
Induction (75mm airflow and V5-F with 100% IC efficiency??????)
Exhaust - Headers no restrictions
Cam - Explorer GT40

 

[MuscleJunkie]

The tranny can be tuned very effectively to take advantage of the engine build power/curves, gear ratio, and torque converter.

Desktop Dyno 5 (DD) is pretty accurate, they say within 5%, but you can screw-up inputs like any program.

Long Story: I'd like to run DD and offered cam advice only because I already had results of that cam in my build thread and your build is almost identical to mine. I may do a cam down the road, but I have come to other conclusions in that thread.

It took years the get Desktop Dyno back. I was a fan of DD2000 and DD2003. I bought, but saw they were pirated, shut down, and it likely took some time to make it compatible with windows 10 & 11. It's back and I appreciate it. I have spent time utilizing DD. I set-up three of my own blower builds and have compared it's accuracy to real world dyno graphs. I am happy it is available and am checking my current build now. I am going to limited my usage here, I won't give details on my inputs, nor output request as one should buy Desktop Dyno 5. It works well, I encourage everyone who is building to get it and it is not expensive. One can look at some of the output I have posted to see the accuracy of DD and changes I am making based on research, help here, and DD on my build.

Desktop Dyno 5 allows these Inputs:
Environment - temp humidty etc
Engine - 302 Explorer Short Block (Bored and/or stroked)
Heads - GT40P
CR - 9:1
Fuel -Gasoline
Induction (75mm airflow and V5-F with 100% IC efficiency??????)
Exhaust - Headers no restrictions
Cam - Explorer GT40

Can you explain about tuning the 4R70W? I have a stock converter but did have some work to beef it up a bit and shift nicer when I did the rebuild last year

 

[MuscleJunkie]

I still think you have a solid combination. As they noted on the Corral, belt slip is a high likelihood with the small blower pulley. If you get the blower speed up to 50k or so, then the power should be excellent given a proper A/F and timing tune. Watch the injector duty cycle as you get closer to the end goal, keep it under 90%. That extra idler pulley could also be a little flimsy, the support seems mighty long and narrow. I hope I can modify these stock brackets some, I'd like a vacuum pump at the bottom below the tensioner, plus a stronger tensioner mounted in its place.

Keep going, when you get it close and start thinking of a new final engine, then the top rpm selection becomes big for building that engine. The blower may support 6000rpm easily, but maybe not and 5500 might be the best. The transmission might play a part, how it shifts that high and with the power it has, how does it feel etc.

I really need to find a solution for the waterpump pulley. It is the only thing keeping me from getting a bigger crank pulley. As far as injectors, I am running GT500 injectors and the tuner said I have more than enough for anything that I will do on this engine.

I asked again about the standoff/idler pulley that they added . They have assured me they feel it will hold just fine. I hope they are right.

My overall goal with this truck performance wise is to get it to perform on par with the 1st generation SRT-8 Jeep Grand Cherokee or maybe a little bit more. I drove one of those for a few sessions at VIR when I had my Viper there. I want to get Big White to the point where I can run it at VIR as well. I love the AWD on this truck and the huge torque. Looking forward to finally driving it with the XB-1a and seeing how it feels.

 

[CDW6212R]

I'd start with that WP pulley clearance, by measuring the distance to the crank blower drive pulley. Extend that crank pulley with a straight edge, towards the WP pulley. Measured perpendicular to the belt, to the WP, the edge of that drive pulley where the belt is, that will be half the amount you can increase the drive pulley. I looks like at least 1/2" to me, which is 1" more to add to the 6.5" drive pulley. I'd leave at least 1/8" clearance to account for any belt thickness variances.

What are the GT500 injectors, the lt/hr size? That 80lt/hr injector by Deka is a big standard people use for many boosted engines. If what you have is near 60lt/hr then you are likely fine for now.

You will need some more work on the suspension I'll bet, to be safe on a track at speed. I think the rear is too loose for pushing the limits around corners, it needs to be more predictable near the limit.

 

[MuscleJunkie]

I'd start with that WP pulley clearance, by measuring the distance to the crank blower drive pulley. Extend that crank pulley with a straight edge, towards the WP pulley. Measured perpendicular to the belt, to the WP, the edge of that drive pulley where the belt is, that will be half the amount you can increase the drive pulley. I looks like at least 1/2" to me, which is 1" more to add to the 6.5" drive pulley. I'd leave at least 1/8" clearance to account for any belt thickness variances.

What are the GT500 injectors, the lt/hr size? That 80lt/hr injector by Deka is a big standard people use for many boosted engines. If what you have is near 60lt/hr then you are likely fine for now.

You will need some more work on the suspension I'll bet, to be safe on a track at speed. I think the rear is too loose for pushing the limits around corners, it needs to be more predictable near the limit.

M-9593-G302

Fuel Injector
Flow Rate: 47 lbs/Hr @ 39.15 psi
Type: EV14 (USCAR Connector)
Impedance: 11-18 ohms

Original equipment on 2007-10 SVT GT500

According to the tuner I had a lot of injector and I would be good for awhile.

 

[410Fortune]

Electric waterpump?

 

[CDW6212R]

M-9593-G302

Fuel Injector
Flow Rate: 47 lbs/Hr @ 39.15 psi
Type: EV14 (USCAR Connector)
Impedance: 11-18 ohms

Original equipment on 2007-10 SVT GT500

According to the tuner I had a lot of injector and I would be good for awhile.

I agree that those injectors are plenty for now. How it goes with new changes and how much power you gain later, you might need a little more at some point.

 

[MuscleJunkie]

At corral it was suggested to post the dyno sheet with smoothing 2. Said it would show any belt slip. Anybody see this?

 

[Blown]

No, the bottom graph shows steadily increasing boost!

You may be able to find "injector %" in the data log. You should have plenty of injector.

A mild cam swap will get you more power without having to add boost.

 

[MuscleJunkie]

No, the bottom graph shows steadily increasing boost!

You may be able to find "injector %" in the data log. You should have plenty of injector.

A mild cam swap will get you more power without having to add boost.

So do you think there is something going on at 3,000 rpm. Here is the 3000 RPM dyno sheet. Look at the differences in torque of the runs and the AFR as well. Anybody can explain what I am seeing here? But what I understand from the smoothing 2 dyno sheet in my last post, there doesn't appear to be any slip?