pinging and timing chains!!

Hi,

I think many of you will be VERY interested in this!! I have 2002 xls with 4.0v6. I bought it used at 43000 miles and it now has 59000. It's been "pinging" since I bought it and this has been very annoying. I've replaced O2 sensors, MAF sensor, EGR valve, etc. all to no avail. I've cleaned out the engine with stuff like Seafoam. Nothing has really worked. So I took it in for a diagnostic and now I learn that it's not really pinging but timing chain slap that is due to tensioner wear!!!! There is a TSB on the subject. The repair is in the range of $1500 to $2400 depending on whether it's front of both front and rear chains. I will be contacting Ford on this one as I really don't think I should pay for a defective design. I'll see what happens. The sound is very much like aping or knock or valve train sound and it occurs mainly under load in the range of 2500 to 3500 rpm.

Tom

TSB 04-15-4

08/09/04

RATTLE NOISE FROM PRIMARY CHAIN DRIVE AREA
2000-3000 RPM - 4.0L SOHC ENGINE

FORD:
1999-2002 Explorer
2001-2002 Explorer Sport Trac,
Explorer Sport, Ranger

MERCURY:
1999-2002 Mountaineer

This article supersedes TSB 02-08-01 to update part numbers and add a labor operation for vehicles with auxiliary air conditioning.

ISSUE

Some vehicles equipped with the 4.0 SOHC (single over-head cam) engine may exhibit a primary timing chain rattle noise. The noise is heard during hot and cold engine operation (but mainly heard on cold engines) under acceleration, typically at 2400-2500 RPM. To verify concern, accelerate in 2nd gear between 2000 and 3000 RPM and listen for rattle noise that sounds similar to spark knock. This may be caused by the primary timing chain tensioner system.

ACTION

Replace the Primary Timing Chain Tensioner, Chain Guide, Jackshaft and Crankshaft Sprockets with a Primary Timing Chain Tensioner Kit. The Kit includes an improved Primary Chain Tensioner, as well as updated Primary Chain Guide, Primary Jackshaft, and Crankshaft Sprockets. Required fasteners, Primary Timing Chain, and Front Cover Gaskets are also included. Refer to the following Service Procedure for details.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

Verify the condition. Obtain the correct Primary Timing Chain Tensioner Kit and follow the instruction sheet supplied with the Kit.

Use Kit 2U3Z-6D256-CA (balance shaft engines)

for:

^ 1999-2001 4X4 Explorer/Mountaineer

^ 2001-2002 4X4 Sport/Sport Trac

^ ALL 2002 Explorer/Mountaineer, except engine codes 2G-960-AA and 2G-964-AA.


Use Kit P/N 2U3Z-6D256-DA (non balance shaft engines) for:

^ 1999-2001 4X2 Explorer/Mountaineer

^ 2001-2002 4X2 Sport/Sport Trac

^ 2002 MY Explorer/Mountaineer with engine codes 2G-960-AA and 2G-964-AA

^ ALL 2001-2002 Ranger

But who pays for it??!!!

Yes, I have this TSB from alldata.com but my problem is in paying for the job. Ford does not want to cover it. I don't want to shell out all the bucks and am not not in a mood to pull the engine and do such a major job now. Do you know if the front repair is really feasible without pulling the engine? Per Haynes manual, the engine needs to be pulled.

Thanks,
Tom

bad news

I dont know if "pulling" the engine apart is really needed but it is a big job.

Wow this is exactly what I've been hearing our 2002 Explorer do (2-3k RPM, cold engine, etc.). I just did a search for replacing a bad O2 sensor (throwing code - bank 2) and came accross this thread.

I'm currently running a cycle of Auto-Rx in the engine but it doesn't sound like it'll help.

Does anyone know the effects of continuing to drive like this? Now that I think about it... we've probably been driving with this for 15-20k miles (they rack up quick!). How long before additional damage occurs? What kind of damage? This is a 4.0 SOHC with approx 90k miles. I'd hate to invest that kind of $ in this vehicle at this point.

Tom, please keep us updated on your situation and your dealings with Ford.

Thanks!

I was on vacation last week so haven't done a thing on this problem yet. I plan on writing Ford.

Tom

I have the same problem with the pinging annoying sound. Sounds like a diesel engine sometimes. Has anyone had this problem fixed yet. I've tried different brand gases-octanes etc. AAAAAhhhh what will work?

Welcome to a few years ago. The way to fix it is to replace the chain and tensioners, period. If a chain gets too sloppy a piston to valve collision might occur. Happens quite frequently. They are covered up to a certain year and mileage. After that the dealer will just bid you a nice day, after quoting you a rediculous price. Don't expect writing letters to Ford about their design flaws to get you anything but a form letter responce. This is the reason that I have learned to avoid buying a vehicle without a bunch of research, and reason number 2 I only looked at V8's. Number one was the defective piss poor transmissions that the v6's come with.

i have the same problem my fix , is to sell sell fast !!!

Mbrooks420 said:

Welcome to a few years ago. The way to fix it is to replace the chain and tensioners, period. If a chain gets too sloppy a piston to valve collision might occur. Happens quite frequently. They are covered up to a certain year and mileage. After that the dealer will just bid you a nice day, after quoting you a rediculous price. Don't expect writing letters to Ford about their design flaws to get you anything but a form letter responce. This is the reason that I have learned to avoid buying a vehicle without a bunch of research, and reason number 2 I only looked at V8's. Number one was the defective piss poor transmissions that the v6's come with.

Click to expand...

Ditto, change the cam cassettes(@$65), and cam chain tensioners(@$30). The chains aren't a problem. The two tensioners, and the plastic chain guides do not last as long as expected. They can go early, like 20K, or maybe at 150K. Either way, when they do, the noise means that the cam chains are loose.

If those plastic guides wear too much, that debris ends up in the oiling system, big death. With slack in the chain, valve timing can get off, the chain can jump gears. The valvetrain is very expensive, do the fix. Good luck,

is this an easy do it yourself job ? whats involved my 02 the drivers side cam is very noisy ( RATTLE NOISE under load or acceleration ) the pass side is quiet so im assuming what you said needs replacement, thx

The rear cassette cannot be touched without removing the engine or transmission. The two cam tensioners can be changed in a reasonable time, no special tools. The cassettes require timing adjustments, a special tool kit to do that. Try the front tensioner first, the 2002 and newer have a slightly better cassette design than 96-01's. Ask at Ford for the tensioner TSB parts kit. It includes the intake gaskets that are required as well. Good luck,

thanks ill do that !!!!

Keep me posted, with details!

Well, I never did write the letter to Ford. As the Explorer is not my prime vehicle, I'm not motivated to do this fix, and owing to a number of issues with the car, I'm tempted to sell. I'm really disappointed with the Explorer. What a shame - I feel like I should buy Japanese from now on. The key issues are: 1) the timing chain pinging, 2) Can't rent from U-haul (one of the reasons I wanted an SUV to haul stuff) and 3) now the computer is acting up and the "door ajar"light wants to come on and the locks lock at random times. I've had to do too much to this car in stoo short a time. Anyway, please let us know if you do the front tensioner replacement and if it solves your problem noise. I don't feel like pulling the engine to fix the problem, but woul be willing to do the front tensioners. Let me know how much crap you have to remove to get to them.

Thanks!
Tom

I myself am currently screwed. I owe way more than what the truck is worth like 8k more, and my truck has made this noise since the day I bought it. I just thought it was a noisy Idler pulley. I have seriously considered trading it in, and or have prayed for someone to total it, as I have GAP insurance on it. My truck has 95k miles on it, and I fear that the timing is going to jump at any time and leave me royally screwed.

There are about an equal number of threads where the member did fix the parts, and as many that didn't post back their final results. There are quite a few pictures among those threads. I took only a few pictures myself, not enough to make a good demo thread.

Removing the entire front end accessories and intake manifold is 90% of the labor. The actual in-engine work is a very short process. Finding and using the timing tools is the majority of the rest of the job.

Look hard at the engine front dress, or have the mechanic look at it, and decide how much trouble that would be for you. The two cam chain tensioners are about $25-$40 each, and the cam cassettes are about $70 each. Most people skip the rear cassette, for the engine pulling issue. Good luck,

I belive that the 1999 and up models have had the rear chain (cassette) issues resolved. The TSB 04-15-4 supersedes the old TSB 02-8-1. The total labor for this job is listed as 6.1 hours and the kit part number 2U3Z-6D256-CA (for Balance Shaft Engines) is around $76.00 US. You will need a special camshaft alignment tool if you want to take on the job yourself. I am not sure if any damage will come from using the engine. My 2000 has had the cold rattle for the past three years (50,000 Kilometers) and it has not gotten any worse.

I wish you luck, but I've spoken with a trusted Ford shop foreman(1.5 years ago). I believe the idea that Ford just avoids the rear cassette problem, because of the much greater labor required. Some rear cassettes have failed, but not many. The parts look very very similar, but for some reason the front causes lots of problems, and the rear parts don't. Take very good care of the engine, and hope to be fortunate. Good luck,

I am planning to start it soon

does anyone know if the front kit works on a 1998 explorer?
the tsd says 1999+ and the parts kit may say 2002+?
the price for the front kit is $76 usd and to buy seperately all the parts come to > $500.
the timing tools cost $129, then i guess you can see them for about that to the next poor smuck.
I am planning to start this job soon, if anyone has done this i would love to chat. my email is rmcknight@hotmail.com

My understanding is that the 97-98 SOHC engines are the only engines using the plastic cassette guides. (See TSB 01M01) By 1999 this had been resolved, but not the primary timing chain rattle, or the front chain tensioner rattle (TSB M0012) From 1999 to 2002 (2002 models with engine codes 2G-960-AA and 2G964-AA) the primary chain will rattle when cold in the 2400-2800 RPM range. This needs to be fixed as it will eventually cause some big problems.

It is hard to believe it took Ford this long to fix these problems in their production engines. Obviously, there was not a lot of R&D happening with these motors, and the vehicle owners have done the R&D for Ford at a costly price. The valve timing mechanism on these engines is basically a POS.