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Ford Explorer Community - Maintenance - Modifications - Performance Upgrades - Problem Solving - Off-Road - Street
Explorer Forum Covers the Explorer ST, Explorer Sport, Explorer Sport Trac, Lincoln Aviator, Mercury Mountaineer, Mazda Navajo, Ford Ranger, Mazda Pickups, and the Ford Aerostar
I've read that the PCM strategy attempts to keep the engine running when there is a loss of signal from the CKP sensor. It remembers the relative position of the last received signal. It may also assume a certain engine cranking speed and fire the plugs accordingly. Post 611 showed the fuel pressure varying while the engine was cranking. Did you have any display of the engine rpm? If it is erratic that could indicate a defective CKP sensor. As I recall the 2nd generation V8s will start and run (poorly) without a good camshaft position sensor but the SOHC V6 won't. Your 4.6L could also run without a CMP sensor but not without a CKP sensor. Except during cranking, the PCM should disable the fuel pump after a few seconds if there is no CKP signal..
I do not have rpm to go with the post on 611..it has not run either long enough to get any running data. .
Im like 90% it will run without a CMP as think ive tried that to find another issue previously. .
Im pretty sure it wont run without a CKP as its come unplugged before..but are you saying it should start without it though,just not run for long??
What other issues control spark or would cause interment spark loss?? Grounds are good,noise isolators are good,crank and cam are both fully plugged in..seriously doubt all 8 coils went bad..
Is the toothed ring installed correctly, with teeth facing out?
Hope the stroker crank is not different in any way to where the spacing would be different where the toothed ring goes?
Crank sensor plugged in all the way?
Same timing cover as before?
Crank sensor lined up with toothed ring?
Bad Crank sensor?
Spark plug heat range? or so fouled they need to be replaced is also a good possible cause as mentioned already.
The other thing is maybe verify that spark is dropping out like the tool showed, by putting a real spark tester in the end of the coil and watching it.
You could substitute a screw driver held close to ground and stuck into the business end of the coil for a slightly inferior test.
Ford vehicles with coil packs(pack of coils in one unit) only use cam sensor for timing the injectors since spark is fired on two cylinders at the same time, one is the compression stroke and the companion cylinder will be on the exhaust stroke. So the ignition system doesn't need to know where TDC compression stroke is.The sequential fuel injection does on these vehicles.
Your vehicle is a COP system. When it is up and running it uses the cam sensor to time the injectors and fire the COP coils only on the compression stroke.
If the cam sensor fails the PCM will then fire the COP coils on compression and Exhaust stroke since it doesn't know which one is which. You would of course get a check engine light on with DTC and the coils would be fired twice as much as usual which could lead to coil failure from overheating.
If the crank sensor stops working completely you will loose spark and fuel injector pulse as there is no rpm signal and the PCM uses that to make an injector and coil pulse. The fuel pump will also shut off when the rpm signal gets lost. Keep in mind this is with total loss of signal, not intermittent problems.
I don't have any information for start up strategy off the top of my head and it is early for me so I am still waking up.
That fuel looked awful.
I don't think it's even possible to put the the crank timing gear on backwards and it not catch on the chains. I couldn't imagine the crank be keyed any different than factory, others would have similar issues using that setup for sure.
Here's the tester I used, it's a solid unit for its price. You can also tell a difference in the info it gives you if the coil is correctly firing the plug or a coil firing a saturated plug. It is also pretty sensitive and can be near the coil and not touching it to get info from it. I'd say at best he was getting spark about 10-20% of the time I was checking it. When it did stumble I could definitely see an improvement in firing. It's either a bad crank sensor or wiring pinch somewhere, it will not throw a code. If I had a scope I could read crank sensor output but it's one tool I don't have.
My X3 came with preloaded data logging files that include one for a 5.0L with auto transmission. rpm is one of the datalog setup parameters. You should be able to monitor the engine rpm while the starter is cranking without using a laptop. If there's no rpm or the rpm is erratic while the starter is cranking then there is a problem with the CKP sensor or the wiring between it and the PCM.
When powering up the X3 it defaults to "Program Vehicle"
1. Depress > twice for "Data Logging"
2. Depress "SELECT" for "Start Monitor"
3. Depress < for "Setup" then depress "SELECT"
4. Depress "SELECT" for "No" on "Config Analog Inputs"
5. Depress "SELECT" if V8 engine datalog file "dlf" is highlighted or down arrow to find a V8 dlf and select it.
6. Depress down arrow until "rpm" is highlighted and select it
7. Depress "Cancel" and "DATALOG" should display
8. Depress "SELECT" to start monitor and then crank starter.
My X3 came with preloaded data logging files that include one for a 5.0L with auto transmission. rpm is one of the datalog setup parameters. You should be able to monitor the engine rpm while the starter is cranking without using a laptop. If there's no rpm or the rpm is erratic while the starter is cranking then there is a problem with the CKP sensor or the wiring between it and the PCM.
When powering up the X3 it defaults to "Program Vehicle"
1. Depress > twice for "Data Logging"
2. Depress "SELECT" for "Start Monitor"
3. Depress < for "Setup" then depress "SELECT"
4. Depress "SELECT" for "No" on "Config Analog Inputs"
5. Depress "SELECT" if V8 engine datalog file "dlf" is highlighted or down arrow to find a V8 dlf and select it.
6. Depress down arrow until "rpm" is highlighted and select it
7. Depress "Cancel" and "DATALOG" should display
8. Depress "SELECT" to start monitor and then crank starter.
Im going to change the plugs again because ive had many builders tell me plugs CAN go permanently bad from continuously flooding them..i did think they can got permanently bad,ive always dried them off and they worked again..
Then going to follow your instructions on testing rpm
My X3 came with preloaded data logging files that include one for a 5.0L with auto transmission. rpm is one of the datalog setup parameters. You should be able to monitor the engine rpm while the starter is cranking without using a laptop. If there's no rpm or the rpm is erratic while the starter is cranking then there is a problem with the CKP sensor or the wiring between it and the PCM.
When powering up the X3 it defaults to "Program Vehicle"
1. Depress > twice for "Data Logging"
2. Depress "SELECT" for "Start Monitor"
3. Depress < for "Setup" then depress "SELECT"
4. Depress "SELECT" for "No" on "Config Analog Inputs"
5. Depress "SELECT" if V8 engine datalog file "dlf" is highlighted or down arrow to find a V8 dlf and select it.
6. Depress down arrow until "rpm" is highlighted and select it
7. Depress "Cancel" and "DATALOG" should display
8. Depress "SELECT" to start monitor and then crank starter.
I don't think you will get it to throw any codes at all until it finishes two drive cycles, since the PCM has been reset. Have you tried to unplug the harnesses from the PCM? Maybe just unplugging them and plugging them back in could help make a connection. You could also double check the harnesses from PCM to each coil to make sure there isn't a break. It's possible the harnesses got pinched on install, although having a problem with both is unusual to say the least. I wish you luck my man, I've been following this thread since the beginning and it's frustrating for all of us to see you working on this still......
I don't think you will get it to throw any codes at all until it finishes two drive cycles, since the PCM has been reset. Have you tried to unplug the harnesses from the PCM? Maybe just unplugging them and plugging them back in could help make a connection. You could also double check the harnesses from PCM to each coil to make sure there isn't a break. It's possible the harnesses got pinched on install, although having a problem with both is unusual to say the least. I wish you luck my man, I've been following this thread since the beginning and it's frustrating for all of us to see you working on this still......
I actually pulled the ecm harness to check for bent pins,also checked for pinched harnesses everywhere and dont see anything ..everything looks and appears to check out..its just losing signal to the coils,all are getting power though
Im pretty much down to a bad ecm..there just aint anything else it appears
After my timing chain job, I had an intermittent misfire issue that I was never able to resolve myself and it led me to retiring my Explorer. However, I found a guy in town that was able to flash my PCM for $100 that helped with the issue, as I haven't had a misfire problem in the last few months. There could have been some weird event that caused the PCM to short or corrupt it's software and a simple flash may fix it. It's certainly unusual for the PCM board itself to get broken, but it's possible the software could get corrupted.....
On the Aviator all of the power to the COPs go thru C144 on the passenger side firewall next to the top PCM connector. It is comparable to my Explorer C1168 shown in the photo below (red arrow).
Make sure it is seated and locked in its mating connector.
On the Aviator all of the PCM wires to the COPs go thru C144 on the passenger side firewall next to the top PCM connector. It is comparable to my Explorer C1168 shown in the photo below (red arrow).
Make sure it is seated and locked in its mating connector.
There is a radio noise suppression capacitor for each bank of COPs. Sometimes capacitors become unreliable and can short when there is a pulse of current. You can try disconnecting the electrical connector to each of them to see if it makes a difference. One mounts on the rear of the driver side head just below the valve cover. The other is on the passenger side just above injector 4.
There is a radio noise suppression capacitor for each bank of COPs. Sometimes capacitors become unreliable and can short when there is a pulse of current. You can try disconnecting the electrical connector to each of them to see if it makes a difference. One mounts on the rear of the driver side head just below the valve cover. The other is on the passenger side just above injector 4.
The OP's patience is incredible!
I would have brought it to someone else long ago, and bankrupted myself.
With all the help from forum pros, I'm sure you will figure out the trouble.
So guess im about to order a used ecu..found one for $60 sooo why not..ive spent that in plugs ..
O also i test all 3 set of plugs ive bought and even pulled some out that was dripping wet with fuel and tested on my scooter coil to see if they sparked and all 3 set including the drenched ones sparked..
I also tested all the coils and even put in a set of OE coils..all passed and sparked on the bench...
The pats systems will usually disable the starter's ability to crank or the fuel injectors, not the ignition coils.
Disabling the spark and not fuel would be bad for the cats and could cause damage.
To verify pats is disabled (allowing vehicle to start) look for the theft light and see if it turns off with key on engine off.
If the light stays on or blinks with the key on engine off then the pats system is disabling the vehicle.
If the light goes out after a couple of seconds then pats is allowing the vehicle to do what it needs to do.
Check all your grounds, remember that the PCM just applies ground to each coil to build up the magnetic field and then when it stops applying the ground that's when the magnetic field collapses and creates spark. If the PCM doesn't have a good ground it would have a hard time giving it to the coils.
There are multiple grounds to the PCM too, and I have never seen a listing for exactly what they each ground individually, that info is just not available to us.
