04' Will Not Start, Starter Interrupt?

[Azzy]

I am an old technician, and have worked my way up to a factory rep for a heavy duty truck manufacturer so I know electrical systems and how much time it can take to troubleshoot. I am hoping that someone has been down this road before and can cut my diagnostic time down for me.

My wife has a 04' 2wd V-6 Explorer. The battery gave us problems last year and we had to jump start it numerous times. Until finally it would not crank, click, nothing. I hooked up our heavy duty battery charger for jump starting big rigs so the amperage in medium mode alone is enough to start a car (I know not to leave it on medium for very long), the lights would come on stay bright and not dim when the ignition switch was in the start position and still no crank, click, nothing. We had it towed to the dealer (after me telling my wife to drop it off numerous times it took this and a tow truck to get it to them, not to mention it was still under warranty!). The next day my wife picks it up and all they say is the battery was dead?!? I made sure she asked if there was a battery interrupt that needed resetting or a relay that failed, the guy said no, battery was dead?!?!?

Well, here we go again. Same scenerio, I have the charger on it right now, bright lights, bright dash, key in crank position no crank, no click, nothing, and the lights do not dim!?!? I put the key in the "Run" position, rolled under the vehicle, hooked up my remote starter, hit the button, the starter engages and spins the motor at normal speed but the engine does not fire. I must add, the fuses are ok, tested with my Fluke meter.

HELP!!!

 

[NEWFS02X]

No start

Hello Azzy.

While trying to crank did you do a voltage drop test on the battery, the cable attaching to the solenoid and so on. Especially the ground?

John

 

[jp450]

Unlock the doors with the Key Fob before attempting to turn it over. Doing this will reset the security system and allow you to start the Ex.

 

[tstites]

04' XLS not cranking

Replaced the battery, and the starter/solenoid and still no cranking. Are you saying to unlock the doors with the key fob and then it will crank? I used a volt meter and did a drop voltage check on the main power cable coming down to the solenoid and very little drop. I checked for voltage on the signal wire from the ignition and there was nothing when I had someone turning the key to start. If I short the solenoid with a screwdriver, the starter does indeed turn over. I have tested all of the fuses under the hood that have anything to do with the ECM or starting circuit. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[E.B. Cornburner]

Ford had a TSB about the small wire on the starter having a connection problem. Apparently, the end corroded and could sometimes break. That's the first place I'd check.

 

[tstites]

Still won't start...

I measured for voltage on the ignition wire coming to the solenoid, no volts. I rigged up a by-pass switch to supply 12v from battery to the ignition input on the solenoid, turned the ignition key to on, pushed the button and the engine turns over but will not start. Is the ignition switch causing this and is there somewhere I could do a voltage check to verify this?

Update: When key is turned on, the security light on the dash (PATS) has a fast blink, did not hear the fuel pump prime, service engine soon light and check gage light stayed on and did not go off after a few seconds. Thanks!

 

[mikeh44]

your pats system is keeping you from starting are you using a pats key

 

[jp450]

I measured for voltage on the ignition wire coming to the solenoid, no volts. I rigged up a by-pass switch to supply 12v from battery to the ignition input on the solenoid, turned the ignition key to on, pushed the button and the engine turns over but will not start. Is the ignition switch causing this and is there somewhere I could do a voltage check to verify this?

Update: When key is turned on, the security light on the dash (PATS) has a fast blink, did not hear the fuel pump prime, service engine soon light and check gage light stayed on and did not go off after a few seconds. Thanks!

Did you attempt to do the unlock with the FOB? The same thing happened to me after clearing some codes from the computer by disconecting the battery. A call to the dealer informed me to attempt what I had told you. In my case it worked... I now own a code reader to clear codes the right way...

Jeff

Jeff

 

[not8taxi]

what kind of remote start system do you have install?....i have the code alarm remote start system installed on my car for about 3 yrs now...its a 2002 ex....for some reason when i auto start it...it sometimes starts and most of the time it doesnt...i notice only when i auto start it and it doesnt start that the red light on the dash board starts to blink really fast...i also tried putting the key in the ignition and autostarting it from the keypad...and everytime i had the key in the on position the motor started...never had a problem when starting the vehicle using the key alone though...conclusion...i thought it was the auto start system but after reading your problem maybe the pats key system is messing up...wierd..ford never fails...maybe your ex is not reading the key..try using any other coded keys u have..

 

[91Expgeek]

Did you attempt to do the unlock with the FOB? The same thing happened to me after clearing some codes from the computer by disconecting the battery. A call to the dealer informed me to attempt what I had told you. In my case it worked... I now own a code reader to clear codes the right way...

Jeff

Jeff

Thanks for trying to help Jeff! tstites is my son, unfortunately he is on the right coast and I am on the left. (He and family are out to dinner as I type this).

All of this PATS stuff is new to me - good to see he followed my advice an jumped into explorerforum.com - this has been a wonderful resource for me to keep our old 91 going.

Did an advanced search for PATS in this section - lots of great reading in there - saved the link and will spend this evening perusing everything to see if I can come up with anything else to help him. Sounds like it is due time for us to learn about code readers/clearing codes/etc. Do you have a recommendation for a good one?

Thanks again!
-=dave=-

~~~

Edited: Just spoke with tstites on the phone (as he stepped out of the restaurant ) and he assures he did try unlocking/locking/unlocking the doors with the key FOB multiple times with no positive results - then had to go feed the wife and kids before they started chewing on his ankles.

 

[tstites]

My "remote start" was simply hooking up a wire to the ignition input wire on the solenoid, then to a push button switch and finally on to the positive side of the battery. By pushing the button, it causes the solenoid to activate and the starter to crank.

I have also just gone back with both sets of keys that I have and tried alternating the keys and waving the one I was not using around the dash and column to see if the transpoder would pick up one of them. No luck. Tried jiggling the key in the ignition, tried putting the tranny into neutral... nothing is working.

Like you mentioned, my PATS light on the dash is blinking really fast too.
Thanks again to all,
Tom

 

[E.B. Cornburner]

It's probably going to need a trip to the Ford dealer to re-train the PATS key(s). We've bought repo'd vehicles already that had the system completely locked up due to multiple start attempts with a non-PATS key.

 

[91Expgeek]

It's probably going to need a trip to the Ford dealer to re-train the PATS key(s). We've bought repo'd vehicles already that had the system completely locked up due to multiple start attempts with a non-PATS key.

While I guess it could happen, the odds seem like they would be very long that both keys would lose their programming at once, being carried by two different people. I would suspect that its going to be more than just re-training the keys to find out what caused this particular failure to begin with. (JMHO). I do agree it will probably require a trip to the dealer to overcome the problem, (as much as saying that causes me to grind my back teeth).

THIS PART IS JUST AN "OPINION" NOT BASED ON FACT:
I have read of an antenna wire in the vicinity of the ignition switch (there to permit communications with the chip in the keys) that "can" come loose. Haven't been able to find a clue as to what it looks like, but if it were me I would remove the lower steering wheel column cover, get in there with a flashlight and see if I could find anything that looked "loose".

-=dave=-

p.s. I would imagine that most of us in here started working on cars out of financial necessity - I sure did, and at 16 could swap the manual tranny in my old '53 Chevy in 30 minutes flat with nothing more than basic hand tools. As time passed I have continued to work on my own vehicles, but now it is for the feeling of satisfaction that "I did it" rather than just to avoid paying a dealer/mechanic to do it for me. Now, at this age, I am finally to the point of giving it up - but will always treasure the self-satisfaction of "making it go again". Thank you again to explorerforum.com as an amazing resource that, with a little patience and use of the "search" function has provided so much help. The old '91 is still running - but like me is kind of slowing down these days.

UPON FURTHER REFLECTION:
Re-read this part - "We've bought repo'd vehicles already that had the system completely locked up due to multiple start attempts with a non-PATS key." and got to thinking about it - sure enough when it failed his mother-in-law tried repeatedly to get the engine to start - if that one key's chip had "lost its mind" her repeated attempts could have the same result you outlined of causing it to become "completely locked up".

Live and learn! He will do the visual inspection in the column this evening when he gets home from work - then start thinking of having it towed if nothing is found. Thanks again for your assistance on this!!!

NOTES: For other folks with PATS problems - please note that the 2004 is different from older vehicles - having a PATS II system that requires a minimum of TWO functioning keys to re-program a 3rd one from inside the vehicle. If you only had two to begin with its probably going to be dealer or a very qualified locksmith time. Upon removing the lower steering column cover, tstites discovered what looks like the module itself molded to wrap around the lock assembly. Time to tow.

FINAL WASH-UP: The PATS was apparently in total lock-down as a result of all the repeated tries with the bad key. Again this is on tstites 2004 Stock Exp - Ford dealer just called, car is ready for pickup. $75 to reprogram both keys and activate the system.

 

[jp450]

what kind of remote start system do you have install?....i have the code alarm remote start system installed on my car for about 3 yrs now...its a 2002 ex....for some reason when i auto start it...it sometimes starts and most of the time it doesnt...i notice only when i auto start it and it doesnt start that the red light on the dash board starts to blink really fast...i also tried putting the key in the ignition and autostarting it from the keypad...and everytime i had the key in the on position the motor started...never had a problem when starting the vehicle using the key alone though...conclusion...i thought it was the auto start system but after reading your problem maybe the pats key system is messing up...wierd..ford never fails...maybe your ex is not reading the key..try using any other coded keys u have..

Had that SAME problem with my 99 and the remote start. Try taking off the plastic cover around the ignition switch. You should fide a black rubber ring with a small red and black wire coming out of it. This is the "PATS key" for the remote start. Make sure that is it snugley pressed all the way to the right and around the ignition switch. I secured mine with some electrial tape to keep it there.

 

[tstites]

04' Explorer will now start

Just had it towed down to Ford this morning and they have fixed it. They said that they had to reprogram the keys into the PATS system and now it works. I asked how this happened and they could not explain what caused it to occur. Best I can guess is that the battery was going dead and maybe caused a problem for the PATS system, tied into repeated attempts to start the car in a short period. Oh, Ford only wants $75 for this job... I almost feel like dancing!
Thank you all very much,
Tom

 

[Azzy]

Powertrain Control Module

Well the local dealer towed it in and claims the PCM had failed. Replaced the PCM and the instrument cluster then started fine, however it still started sluggish. You think they would have tested the battery with their Midtronics Tester. Had they done so they would have pulled a code to replace the battery and warranty would have paid. Ended up taking it to another dealer and they condemed the battery in a matter of minutes, installed a new one now she has plenty of cranking power.

In case your wondering how a 2004 Explorer still has warranty on it, we bought it new May 2005. Selling dealer "lost" it in inventory??!?! Their loss my gain, got one heck of a deal!!

Now you know the rest of the story!

Thank you all for your responses!

 

[Montrealhottie]

in case anyone else has this issue try this first!

It's probably going to need a trip to the Ford dealer to re-train the PATS key(s). We've bought repo'd vehicles already that had the system completely locked up due to multiple start attempts with a non-PATS key.

The following checks can be made without WDS2000:
The engine does not start and LED remains off. 1. Check PATS system fuses

2. If alarm is fitted check if LED functions for alarm: if not check cigar lighter fuse (also used for LED)

3. If not go to main dealer
Engine does not start: LED flashes rapidly Leave ignition on until the LED starts to flash a 2 digit code: (sequence- pause-sequence) Check the following codes:

Code flashes:
1:3 Key code not received. Is key screened by other keys or objects? Try different key: if okay then first key is faulty.

If not go to main dealer
1:4 Partial code only received. Try again. If not okay use different key.

If not go to main dealer
1:5 Key not programmed into PATS. Program key as above using master

1:6 Faulty link between PATS module and EECV

Go to main dealer

If the LED illuminates for 4 seconds but the engine does not crank, PATS is working correctly and there is a fault elsewhere. Try starter solenoid or battery. If okay go to main dealer.

If the LED illuminates for 4 seconds and the engine cranks but does not start, PATS is working correctly and the fault lies elsewhere. Check the Fuel Cut-Off switch. If okay go to main dealer.

If none of the above checks resolves the problem then the system will need to be connected to WDS at a main dealer for a diagnostic check.

If the engine starts normally but the LED stays on, wait for one minute. The LED may then flash a code 2:1. This is showing a ‘fault’ that there are less than 3 keys programmed into PATS. One of more keys need to be programmed to stop this code.

Any other code needs referring to the Ford main dealer.

 

[DMacLennan14]

what kind of remote start system do you have install?....i have the code alarm remote start system installed on my car for about 3 yrs now...its a 2002 ex....for some reason when i auto start it...it sometimes starts and most of the time it doesnt...i notice only when i auto start it and it doesnt start that the red light on the dash board starts to blink really fast...i also tried putting the key in the ignition and autostarting it from the keypad...and everytime i had the key in the on position the motor started...never had a problem when starting the vehicle using the key alone though...conclusion...i thought it was the auto start system but after reading your problem maybe the pats key system is messing up...wierd..ford never fails...maybe your ex is not reading the key..try using any other coded keys u have..

you have a problem with the aftermarket pats module. it has nothing to do with ford. there are a number of different pats bypass modules that may have been used in your install, but that would be what you should check first.