1997 explorer 4x4 issues | Page 2 | Ford Explorer Forums

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1997 explorer 4x4 issues

If you follow the link above and look at the pin out sheet for the 97 X plug C282.

Pin 8= 4vdc in auto, 3vdc in auto, 1vdc in low.
Pin 10=12vdc in, auto and hi 0vdc in low.
Pin 11=not used
Pin 12=0vdc in all positions
Pin 15=12vdc in auto, 10vdc in 4hi, and 12vdc in 4low
Pin 16=12vdc in all positions with a momentary loss of power during the 4 low shift

Pin 17=same as 16

I expected Pin 15 to be 0vdc until 4x4 wa engaged either in auto or 4hi.

Coming from the shift motor relay, brown wire

Any ideas, do any of you see a problem. I'm not really sure what the voltages should be, and when they should be.
0vdc in auto, 6vdc in 4hi.
 



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You have 1 of 2 problems. And from the sound of what you're describing it's the 2nd. 1st would be a bad TOD relay. But since you're getting front spin with the wheels up that is only a maybe. 2nd is a bad clutch pack, possibly worn to the point that under no load it is engaging. Apply a load(car on ground) and clutch slips and no go. And you're under the wrong impression of how the 4wd on the 4405 works. The TOD relay does control 4hi. The TOD relay is different than a regular relay in that it isn't on/off, it's a variable output relay. In auto/4wd it varies the output to the clutch in response to how much wheel spin it detects from the speed sensors in the front and rear t-case outputs. Drdoom is correct, in 4hi it engages the clutch at 100%, so there is no direct lock up of the front and rear so it is more of a "soft lock up" so to speak. It IS still a clutch and if it is worn or slipping it might feel like it's not working with the truck on the ground. Back to the first possibility, if the TOD relay is bad as such that it's not engaging to 100% that might be the problem. But I'm leaning towards the clutch.
 






Can I just test the system by bypassing the TOD relay. If anyone know the pin out on the relay couldnt I unplug the relay and jump out the plug to put 100% duty on the clutch. That would at least rule out the relay.

Also with the voltages I measured it seems that I'm not getting the correct the correct to the clutch, but I dont know. One would think that at 100% duty there would be 12v applied to the clutch, but thats not the case. Read above at the voltage output and see what you think.
 






Those voltages look right. It looks like the system is doing what it's supposed to be doing. If you try putting 12v on the brown wire I would isolate it first. It doesn't just go to the TOD relay, it also goes the the 4x4 shift controller. If you feed 12v back into the system that could be a problem. There is a connector under the driver seat where you could cut it and be able to splice it back together and not be concerned with it being weather proof.
 






You have 1 of 2 problems. And from the sound of what you're describing it's the 2nd. 1st would be a bad TOD relay. But since you're getting front spin with the wheels up that is only a maybe. 2nd is a bad clutch pack, possibly worn to the point that under no load it is engaging. Apply a load(car on ground) and clutch slips and no go. And you're under the wrong impression of how the 4wd on the 4405 works. The TOD relay does control 4hi. The TOD relay is different than a regular relay in that it isn't on/off, it's a variable output relay. In auto/4wd it varies the output to the clutch in response to how much wheel spin it detects from the speed sensors in the front and rear t-case outputs. Drdoom is correct, in 4hi it engages the clutch at 100%, so there is no direct lock up of the front and rear so it is more of a "soft lock up" so to speak. It IS still a clutch and if it is worn or slipping it might feel like it's not working with the truck on the ground. Back to the first possibility, if the TOD relay is bad as such that it's not engaging to 100% that might be the problem. But I'm leaning towards the clutch.


When I think about TC locking the front and rear together, ime getting that info from here: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203441


It seems to me that even with a clutch engaged 4x4 system with the switch in 4hi and the rear wheels on the ground and the front in the air I should not be able to turn the front by hand. Its the same princiable than a manual trans in a vehicle, with the trns in gear and the rear wheels in the air you would not ne able to turn the wheels by hand.
 






That's correct, if all things are working as they should. If the clutch is "locked" as it should be you shouldn't be able to turn the front by hand. You could try jumping 12v onto the brown wire at the TOD relay connector, and if the front is still free you probably have a bad clutch. If it locks, a bad TOD relay.
 






Im am sorry, I've been trying to understand how you are testing the function of the 4405 transfer case. In post #26 you say you have the rear wheels on the ground and the fronts in the air. You say that you have it in 4 Hi. So far so good? You than say that you can still turn the front wheels by hand. How? I mean do you have the vehicle in Park at this time. If so, you are no longer "locked" front to rear. If you are applying the brake to keep the rear tires from pushing it off the Jackstands, then you would not be able to turn the fronts by hand because of the brakes.
 






The only way I've found to test if the fronts actually engage fully in 4Hi or 4Lo is to strap the Explorer to another vehicle on dirt. Engage 4Lo and put it in first gear. Apply power until the tires spin and see which are spinning.

I can also flip my Brown wire button on a wet road, prove that I can spin the rears, than flip the Brown wire button back off so all functions normally and see if I can still spin. If not the system is working. This is a little more difficult because you can fool yourself since its very hard from inside to tell if there is any front spin or not.

Another possibility is engage 4WD (any but Auto) on a dry high traction parking lot and turn the front wheels hard to either direction and drive in a circle. The drivetrain should bind but this is more difficult to know for sure that 4WD is working.

My final way to positivly know if the front axle is engaging I would not advise anyone to do but I have. Rear wheels up on jack stands, fronts on ground, left foor firmly on brake, engine running. Now shift from park to nuetral and engage any 4WD mode, even leave it in auto. Now shift to drive and slowly let up, but not off of, the brake. The fronts will try to pull you off the jack stands if the TC is fully engaging. Actually, if you let off the brake much the fronts will pull you off the jack stands and you may damage the vehicle, bystanders or yourself.

I prefer the method of strapping the Explorer to another truck. Its fool proof, assuming Im the fool. I have trouble shot this transfer case many times, the clutch pack itself seldom fails but it can.

The easiest place to access the Brown wire is under the drivers seat. It is easily seperated from the bundle here. If the seat is removed, you can even follow it down through the floor where it exits beneath the vehicle by itself and enters the transfer case. 12 volts applied to the brown wire at this point will fully engage the electromagnetic clutch (a ball ramp design) and lock the front and rear TC outputs together. This works much like an electronically locking differential.

There are two other aspects of this TC I see frequently mentioned but I have never been able to verify in or out of the truck. 1) The clutches always drag a little, even when disengaged. If so, no more than a loosly set-up Limited Slip differential. There is simple too much space in the ball ramp itself and the clutches are wet. Im not saying none but really almost none. 2) The transfer case is capable of supplying varying amount of torque to the front output. That is partially applying the clutch. First, this is a ball ramp design. There is no way to hold the balls partially rolled out. Even if the controller was PWM (pilse width modulated) this wouldn't work. The signal sent down the brown wire is either all or nothing, not a varying voltage. So it is off or on. Albeit, it can and does pulse the clutch. Just not fast enough to partially engage the clutch and send a varying amount of torque to the front axle.

P.S. Once the transfer case clutch is activated, it takes about 30 degrees of rotation to fully engage. How much wheel spin, in Auto mode, for the electronics to decide to engage the clutch? Well that varies a little as the computer gets info from a variety of sensors and compares them. Generally less than one rotation of the rear tire but some times slightly over one rotation. How long does it stay engaged before unlocking and looking again to see if there is still wheel spin? Not alot but it seems to be a little hard to pin down. It seems to be about 4 rotations. My tests have had too much variability to be acurate.
 






another point to mention, if the ignition isnt in the "run" position, the clutch will be disengaged
 






Im am sorry, I've been trying to understand how you are testing the function of the 4405 transfer case. In post #26 you say you have the rear wheels on the ground and the fronts in the air. You say that you have it in 4 Hi. So far so good? You than say that you can still turn the front wheels by hand. How? I mean do you have the vehicle in Park at this time. If so, you are no longer "locked" front to rear. If you are applying the brake to keep the rear tires from pushing it off the Jackstands, then you would not be able to turn the fronts by hand because of the brakes.


I was just giving an example, I didnt really try it like this. Just trying to say that when it is locked you should not be able to turn the front drive shaft by hand. I'm not sure about this "soft lock" Its either locked or it aint.
 






That's correct, if all things are working as they should. If the clutch is "locked" as it should be you shouldn't be able to turn the front by hand. You could try jumping 12v onto the brown wire at the TOD relay connector, and if the front is still free you probably have a bad clutch. If it locks, a bad TOD relay.


I think I will apply the 12vdc at the plug on the TC shift motor. But if I were to try at the TOD relay connector, that would also test the 4x4 controll module and the GEM. The only thing I worry about testing it this way is if the system isnt designed for 12vdc. And it seems that no one knows for sure what the correct voltage should be on the brown wire while engaged in 4hi. So I will bypass the entire system and apply the 12vdc at the TC connector. If it works I will start working my way back to the TOD relay testing it at every point possible.
 






Soft lock is just a term to explain that there is no mechanical "hard" lock up. If all is working properly, than yes you're correct you shouldn't be able to turn the front drive shaft by hand. But just like the clutch for a manual tranny, if the clutch plates are worn or slipping that could be a problem. It's possible that the ball ramp is bad and it's not engaging for that reason. So if all is well, then yes your statement of "it's either locked or it ain't" is basically true. But if there's a problem with any part of the electro-magnetic clutch, that may not necessarily be true.
 






Well, I applied 12vdc directly to the "brown wire" botht at the plug on the TC and at the TOD relay. No difference. When I applied the 12 at the TOD I got undernieth to verify I was getting the 12vdc at the brown wire going into the TC, I was.

I lowered the front of the X to the ground with the back still up. I put it in gear let it idle, no pull from the from. I increased the RPM's (still in gear) and I could feel a very very very light nudge. When I really give it the throttle I can hear and feel a big bang, simialar to what you would expect when you have a broke motor mount. It happens once and as long as you keep the RPM's up it will not do it again until you let it idle for a few seconds. I can throttle it back and forth and it will only do it the one time until it sites idle for 3-5 seconds.

I think the TC is toast..................

Next Q is what can I replace it with, bolt in swap, not much good with fabrication. I would like to keep it simple K.I.S.S. I will probably just get another X TC, but what year do I have to have, and do I have to match numbers up exactly?
 






You probably have a 4405-08 now. Case from another '97 would be the simplest. If you use a '95 or '96 you will have to change your front driveshaft to match. '98-up won't work because it has no speedometer hole in the rear case.
There is an excellent article here about rebuilding the 4405, should you go that route.
Myself, I would consider any junkyard 4405 as suspect, they are just too problematic, you need to get inside and do a few upgrades. For instance the only one around here was $650.00USD and it had 163,000 miles on it.
 






I still wasn't sure you were testing the TC in a situation that would actually lock it. After that last test, well that is pretty deffinative. Assuming you put 12 volts to the brown wire (it is all by itself once it goes through the floor under the seat and out under the truck, its not part of a plug and it goes through a groumet in the TC case) this would suggest that the problem is inside the TC and not one of the computer controllers. The cheapest/easiest solution is a used TC from a junk yard.

Now the problem is, you have a 1997. This was a transition year for the Explorer drivetrain. Any TC from a second generation Explorer should work, but there are no gaurantees. 1998's are next closest to the 97's and by '99 most all of the changes were complete. Also, understand that Ford is notorious for making running changes in the middle of model years. If you want full functionality the TC must come from an Explorer. All second Gens used the Borg Warner 4405 but some of the electronic controls are different. Typically just located in different places but some hard parts are different too. Like the ABS sensors, speedometer sensors etc.

I believe any Second Generation TC will work perfectly but we can't be positive. Id try to get a '97. If not available, I would try to use a salvage yard that will accept a return if it is not fullt compatible.
 






The easiest way to tell is to check the rear output on the t-case. If you have the speedo gear there then you need a 97 case to keep it simple. If by chance you don't have the gear and there is as blank hole there, you have a late 97 and a 98-01 case will work.
 






The easiest way to tell is to check the rear output on the t-case. If you have the speedo gear there then you need a 97 case to keep it simple. If by chance you don't have the gear and there is as blank hole there, you have a late 97 and a 98-01 case will work.

I looked and i'm not real sure what it is i'm seeing. If I'm looking at the correct thing, I see a couple wires and a blank hole the looks like it has teeth on the inside of it for somesort of gear. This is on the driverside of the TC towards the rear. I'm going to try to get a pic and figure out how to post one this weekend and maybe you can tell me for sure. It would be nice to use a 2001 TC.
 






The TC has to be from a 97, the 95 and 96 have different drive shafts, and 98+ wont have a provision for a speed sensor.
 



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