2017 Explorer XLT coolant missing

[JimMadsen]

Greetings all. The gf recently got a used 2018 Explorer XLT with 91k on it. She is within the dealer major mechanical warranty by a few hundred miles.

The other morning, while parked, engine over heated. She was in her lot at work so went in for her shiftm afterwards found coolant overflow was empty. She got some orange coolant and added it to the cold fill line.

Drove home and we looked at it while hot. The overflow was empty. Filled it with about an inch to see what it did over night. Started the engine up and stayed level. Depressed the gas and it sucked the coolant in then spit it back into the tank all frothy.

Come morning, same thing. But now see the upper and lower hose are collapsed. There is no noted coolant leaks on the ground or around the engine. The oil is as expected color and viscosity. I am thinking something internal is bad, maybe the water pump.

It is at the dealer and they said covered unless she hit something and caused damage causing a leak. I am worried about a shady dealer not wanting to do a huge repair job and finding something that would let them charge some big $.

 

[fosterzcj]

The coolant has to go somewhere I'd imagine a bad head gasket. If the coolant ran out the cooling system would have to be bled out. Is the heater core leaking at all?The warranty from Ford even on a used car should cover the damage.

 

[JimMadsen]

I did not smell anything in the cab itself that makes me think of a heater core. The exhaust was nice and clean. The dealership is a Toyota used dealer, not a Ford and looks like Ford is a 5yr 60k. She has 94k on it now.

The dealer was taking the bumper off to figure out what was going on last we heard.

 

[fosterzcj]

How often do you check the coolant? It could also be a slow leak that weeped away your coolant over time. Hopefully it's that and not an ecoboost head gasket or a water pump as those drain coolant into your engine. But if the oil looks OK you may be safe. The clamped hoses ford uses often form cracks where the metal is crimped around the attachments.

 

[FordFlintrock]

The dealer was taking the bumper off to figure out what was going on last we heard.

If they are hoping for a better look at the radiator aint gonna happen. Only thing they will see are the grill shutters and A/C condenser.
The cooling system is now likely air bound.

 

[JimMadsen]

How often do you check the coolant? It could also be a slow leak that weeped away your coolant over time. Hopefully it's that and not an ecoboost head gasket or a water pump as those drain coolant into your engine. But if the oil looks OK you may be safe. The clamped hoses ford uses often form cracks where the metal is crimped around the attachments.

She has only had the vehicle for about 4 weeks. The dealership has confirmed there are no leaks. They are just trying to figure out where it all went to. They are saying it "boiled over" and spilled out of the expansion tank. They are hoping to get to it by Monday and diagnosed.

Isn't the Explorer a closed loop system for coolant? There is no escape from the overflow? They also mentioned a shutter in the grill that opened and closed to let air in and they think that is stuck.

Luckily, this all seems to be covered by the dealers warranty since it was just purchased.

 

[JimMadsen]

If they are hoping for a better look at the radiator aint gonna happen. Only thing they will see are the grill shutters and A/C condenser.
The cooling system is now likely air bound.

Can you explain more on the shutters? Dealer said they may be having an issue stuck open or closed. They are not seeing any leaks.

 

[fosterzcj]

The motor that opens and closes the shutters sometimes fail and usually trigger a check engine light. If they fail open its OK but closed failure will make the fans spin like crazy even at low speeds when the shutters are supposed to be open. As for boiling over the cap would show leakage or it would be all over the outside of the coolant tank and you would have smelled it. If it was left in there too long such as not changing the coolant you would still have liquid in the coolant tank. That coolant had to go somewhere. The water pump does have an exterior weep hole but again you'd smell it and see it.

 

[fosterzcj]

The point of the shutters is to give you an extra MPG to comply with EPA regulations by closing and making the car more aerodynamic at high speeds.

 

[JimMadsen]

Agreed on it having to go somewhere which was why I was a little dumbfounded when they said it may have just boiled out. They will have to deal with the shutters since it is a major mechanical issue.

 

[fosterzcj]

The cap will vent vapor out which is negligible even over the course of years. I usually add a cup or splash of coolant either yearly or every other year to both my escape and explorer.

 

[J_C]

She has only had the vehicle for about 4 weeks. The dealership has confirmed there are no leaks. They are just trying to figure out where it all went to. They are saying it "boiled over" and spilled out of the expansion tank. They are hoping to get to it by Monday and diagnosed.

Isn't the Explorer a closed loop system for coolant? There is no escape from the overflow? They also mentioned a shutter in the grill that opened and closed to let air in and they think that is stuck.

Luckily, this all seems to be covered by the dealers warranty since it was just purchased.

The person diagnosing it at that shop has no idea what they are doing. Your call whether to let them continue with that in mind.

Yes, it doesn't just "boil over" as if that is an explanation. If the tank/system were overfilled then some would come out, but not when it is low it shouldn't. It's closed till the tank which must have a vented cap to allow air out if/when the pressure valve for the radiator opens, a normal event that does not cause coolant loss.

You might see if there is exhaust bubbling out the coolant, is a more common cause if bubbling coolant is observed due to a head gasket or block leak. There are test kits to check for exhaust coming out the coolant reservoir, not expensive and can be easily DIY though I am not suggesting that you DIY instead of letting them find this for warranty coverage.

 

[JimMadsen]

The person diagnosing it at that shop has no idea what they are doing. Your call whether to let them continue with that in mind.

Yes, it doesn't just "boil over" as if that is an explanation. If the tank/system were overfilled then some would come out, but not when it is low it shouldn't. It's closed till the tank which must have a vented cap to allow air out if/when the pressure valve for the radiator opens, a normal event that does not cause coolant loss.

You might see if there is exhaust bubbling out the coolant, is a more common cause if bubbling coolant is observed due to a head gasket or block leak. There are test kits to check for exhaust coming out the coolant reservoir, not expensive and can be easily DIY though I am not suggesting that you DIY instead of letting them find this for warranty coverage.

No other choice, the warranty is only at their shop per state law. It is a 60 day 5,000 mile warranty against mechanical faults.

Sounds like you are describing what we found with the frothy bubbly coolant at WOT. My girlfriend offered to show them the video we took, but they declined, saying they will do their own diagnosis. Either way, sounds like this is all on their dime. She is just without a vehicle until they get their thumbs out.

 

[FordFlintrock]

Can you explain more on the shutters? Dealer said they may be having an issue stuck open or closed. They are not seeing any leaks.

The shutters are PCM controlled and as such will likely throw a code if there is a problem. Stuck open no overheat problem whatsoever. Stuck closed one would know soon enough first time driving with overheating without coolant loss. You were only notified of an overheat event when coolant loss triggered it which was prolly a quart or two low.
This is not a "68 Dodge with a hose at radiator cap neck to purge coolant into engine compartment in the case of an overheat . Your problem is coolant loss which results in an overheat.
To someone not familiar with the Ford coolant loss problems a mechanic will always take the path of least resistance when they were the ones who sold it. The Ford water pump has a dirty little secret such as my 3.5 which will hold a good hot and cold pressure test all day long and only leaks with engine running which is very odd in my experience but correct in my instance.

When does a 3.5L water pump leak?

I knew going in before purchase of this 84k vehicle that a water pump was likely in my future. I pressure tested the cooling system twice when cold and it would hold pressure all day long if I let it. Huh? So tested twice when hot and again it held. Double huh? But I could smell the hot coolant...

www.explorerforum.com

You are most likely looking at some degree of engine tear down to find the exact cause of coolant loss whether pump or engine. With that amount of coolant loss and if not external or going into crankcase it is prolly going out the exhaust.

 

[JimMadsen]

Stopped by and talked to one of the service advisors. He said that the person for this car already left but he knew that they were replacing the shutters and that is why it overheated. I told him about the coolant levels and collapsed hose in my first post and he suggested I email the service advisor on the case who will be in on Mon. He agreed that there is a bigger issue, possibly a head gasket.

They are also going to arrange a loaner on Monday, so there is that.

 

[JimMadsen]

The dealership replaced the shutters and is refusing to check anything else regarding the coolant. Here is my concerns, watch for the engine rev towards the end:

 

[peterk9]

Greetings all. The gf recently got a used 2018 Explorer XLT with 91k on it. She is within the dealer major mechanical warranty by a few hundred miles.

The other morning, while parked, engine over heated. She was in her lot at work so went in for her shiftm afterwards found coolant overflow was empty. She got some orange coolant and added it to the cold fill line.

Drove home and we looked at it while hot. The overflow was empty. Filled it with about an inch to see what it did over night. Started the engine up and stayed level. Depressed the gas and it sucked the coolant in then spit it back into the tank all frothy.

Come morning, same thing. But now see the upper and lower hose are collapsed. There is no noted coolant leaks on the ground or around the engine. The oil is as expected color and viscosity. I am thinking something internal is bad, maybe the water pump.

It is at the dealer and they said covered unless she hit something and caused damage causing a leak. I am worried about a shady dealer not wanting to do a huge repair job and finding something that would let them charge some big $.

Check the oil on the dipstick to see if it is contaminated (milky). If it is, the water pump is leaking coolant into the engine and you should stop driving it immediately.

Peter

 

[fosterzcj]

So that dealership just wants to send you on your way and hope you hit the warranty mileage so they can get out of a teardown. That is some pretty subpar customer service. Stuck shutters don't equate to missing or frothy coolant.

 

[J_C]

Unless an '18 engine does something I don't understand, that does not look right. The radiator pressure valve to the tank should have been closed at the point where the engine was started, then open when the heated coolant expanded, increasing the level of coolant in the reservoir, then when the engine shuts off and the coolant contracts, then it sucks it back in from the coolant reservoir. Maybe I'm dating myself and that's no longer how it works, but seems like it has to because of the physics of expansion and contraction?

What about the marks on the tank? Doesn't it have a full cold and full hot mark, or at least one or the other so you can monitor whether it's losing coolant? If it is not losing coolant now/still, then possibly it is okay but I'd still wonder about that valve seeming to be staying open, as well as why it's being sucked in when revving the engine.

I still suspect you have a head gasket or block leak and it is both sucking coolant in and out the exhaust, and possibly putting exhaust out the tank. I do not understand how they can refuse to check further if it is losing coolant. Be sure to have it documented (proof) when you took it to them for this problem so they can't just screw around thinking the warranty will run out. Have it on a dated work order as the customer complaint.

Also you have some kind of squeak to the point of a squeal, I'd look into that, have that fixed as well.

 

[JimMadsen]

Check the oil on the dipstick to see if it is contaminated (milky). If it is, the water pump is leaking coolant into the engine and you should stop driving it immediately.

Peter

It has not appeared milky so far