26 spline clutch

[fleciawilliams]

I realize this is an ancient post but I'm trying to find out if it's true that the bolt pattern on the 26 spline tranny is indeed different than the 23 spline tranny. My motor blew on a trip across Arizona. The vehicle is at a mechanic in Tuba City Arizona right now and I bought a salvage engine last week which is being shipped to him as we speak. The "new" engine was from an automatic vehicle so will presumably have the same bolt pattern as the 23 spline tranny.

First of all, can anyone confirm that there were indeed 2 different bolt patterns? Seems utterly ridiculous that Ford would do such a thing but I guess you never know. Secondly, does anyone know how to tell if I have a 23 spline or 26 spline without separating the motor and trans? IF I have a 26 spline and IF that is a different bolt pattern the vehicle is not worth fixing (as I'd need to go buy another trans that would bolt to my "new" motor) - I'm already looking at spending more than the vehicle is worth so a replacement 23 spline manual trans would put me way into the red - if that were the case I'd quit now and sell what I've got.

My VIN is 1FMZU72E82ZB88001, build date is Jan 16, 2002. It's a 4.0 SOHC V6, 4x4, 5 Speed Manual, XLS 4 door "wagon" (not sport or sport-trac).

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Robert

Hope you have found the answer t were looking for by now if not call Dan at Southland clutch out of California. They have saved me on many parts for this car. Best of luck!

 

[96firephoenix]

Hope you have found the answer t were looking for by now if not call Dan at Southland clutch out of California. They have saved me on many parts for this car. Best of luck!

I think he found his answer on a separate thread...

Always good to spot another 2002 5-speed 4-door owner out there... unfortunately it seems we always find each other in these sort of threads.

 

[imp]

The big problem here is the uncertainty factor of a possible different bolt pattern between the two clutch styles. The transmissions used have non-removable clutch housings, no? Therefore, the bolt pattern of the ENGINE would have to be different, if such rumor were true. IMO it is highly doubtful that a different engine block bolt pattern would be made for only 1000 units. If it is proven to be true, I will quit driving Fords! imp

 

[96firephoenix]

The big problem here is the uncertainty factor of a possible different bolt pattern between the two clutch styles... ...Therefore, the bolt pattern of the ENGINE would have to be different, if such rumor were true. IMO it is highly doubtful that a different engine block bolt pattern would be made for only 1000 units. If it is proven to be true, I will quit driving Fords! imp

This is categorically not the case. The bellhousing bolt pattern is exactly the same as the automatics. I know this from setting my engine out of the manual explorer next to an engine that came out of an automatic.

The transmissions used have non-removable clutch housings, no?

I'm not certain about this aspect. I found one on ebay that looks like the bellhousing is bolt-on, but I think the bellhousing is also the pilot for the input shaft, so it's not as simple as other "removable bellhousing" transmissions.

If the 26-spline clutch is too much of an issue, finding a Ranger with E-4x4 should solve the transmission problems... the Input shaft would need to get replaced on the Explorer manual, which is a complete tear-down to do.

 

[imp]

@96firephoenix

"This is categorically not the case. The bellhousing bolt pattern is exactly the same as the automatics. I know this from setting my engine out of the manual explorer next to an engine that came out of an automatic." Please re-read my post: I said exactly what you are saying: the bellhousing bolt pattern on the engine block will NOT be different.

The big problem here is the uncertainty factor of a possible different bolt pattern between the two clutch styles... ...Therefore, the bolt pattern of the ENGINE would have to be different, if such rumor were true. IMO it is highly doubtful that a different engine block bolt pattern would be made for only 1000 units. If it is proven to be true, I will quit driving Fords!

"I'm not certain about this aspect. I found one on ebay that looks like the bellhousing is bolt-on, but I think the bellhousing is also the pilot for the input shaft, so it's not as simple as other "removable bellhousing" transmissions." If it's Mazda-built M5OD as was used in all gen 2 Explorers, the "bellhousing" is a part of the transmission case casting, exactly like the automatics. No removable clutch housing. In the case of manuals having removable clutch housings, the front input shaft bearing retainer "pilots" in a hole in the housing, to assure concentricity. Those bearing retainers on T-5 transmissions are the aluminum ones notorious for scoring and wearing, causing throw-out bearing sliding problems. Aftermarket loaded with steel replacements for them. In the case of M5OD, the front bearing retainer is not a support or piloting part for the transmission itself, but rather supports only the throw-out bearing, using a bearing mount made of PLASTIC! Ugh!

BTW, what does "categorically" mean, entirely wrong? i

 

[Mbrooks420]

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...+v6,1377660,transmission-manual,flywheel,5348

Rhino Pac Clutch Kit 07-167
Part#: 07-167
2002 Ford Explorer Clutch Kit | AutoPartsKart.com

Are these not what you need?

 

[96firephoenix]

I swear these weren't available a year ago...

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...+v6,1377660,transmission-manual,flywheel,5348

Rhino Pac Clutch Kit 07-167
Part#: 07-167
2002 Ford Explorer Clutch Kit | AutoPartsKart.com

Are these not what you need?

I swear these weren't available a year ago... but yes, they look like the right items. There's 3 other ones on that autopartskart site that are not correct, but the 07-167 looks like the OEM design.

Please re-read my post: I said exactly what you are saying: the bellhousing bolt pattern on the engine block will NOT be different.BTW, what does "categorically" mean, entirely wrong? i

....And I was agreeing with you that the notion of a different bolt pattern is absurd. And yes, categorically means entirely. Sorry if there was confusion.

"I'm not certain about this aspect. I found one on ebay that looks like the bellhousing is bolt-on, but I think the bellhousing is also the pilot for the input shaft, so it's not as simple as other "removable bellhousing" transmissions." If it's Mazda-built M5OD as was used in all gen 2 Explorers, the "bellhousing" is a part of the transmission case casting, exactly like the automatics. No removable clutch housing. In the case of manuals having removable clutch housings, the front input shaft bearing retainer "pilots" in a hole in the housing, to assure concentricity. Those bearing retainers on T-5 transmissions are the aluminum ones notorious for scoring and wearing, causing throw-out bearing sliding problems. Aftermarket loaded with steel replacements for them. In the case of M5OD, the front bearing retainer is not a support or piloting part for the transmission itself, but rather supports only the throw-out bearing, using a bearing mount made of PLASTIC! Ugh!

It's not the same Mazda M5OD as went in the 2-door or Ranger. Take a look at the side-on views in each of these:
Ranger/2-door Ex/SportTrac Manual Trans
4-door SUV Manual Trans

 

[imp]

I swear these weren't available a year ago...

I swear these weren't available a year ago... but yes, they look like the right items. There's 3 other ones on that autopartskart site that are not correct, but the 07-167 looks like the OEM design.


....And I was agreeing with you that the notion of a different bolt pattern is absurd. And yes, categorically means entirely. Sorry if there was confusion.

It's not the same Mazda M5OD as went in the 2-door or Ranger. Take a look at the side-on views in each of these:
Ranger/2-door Ex/SportTrac Manual Trans
4-door SUV Manual Trans

What I see there is a non-removable bell housing. What the transmissions actually are, I dunno. That M5OD, I know, was used in a wide multitude of vehicles, with various engines. For example, my '96 F-150 had one, which fitted up to the old straight six 300 CI (4.9L). imp