4.0L SOHC Vin E Engines

[mattanderson31]

I need help.

My timing chain guide broke, allowing one of the 4 timing chains on my Vin E 4.0L engine to slip. After a month of waiting and talking to repair shops, it seems that my least expensive repair option is to purchase a rebuilt long block for 2800 dollars, and having it installed will run about 4000 dollars.

Apparently this engine must be removed to replace these chains and it is an interference engine, meaning almost certainly have valve damage and possibly cracked heads.

Rebuilding the engine requires the shop to own 8 specialty tools, to the tune of about 800 dollars.

Has anyone had this experience? I wonder if a different engine - a 5.0 liter for instance, will fit. I don't know where to start - any help would be appreciated.

 

[Alec]

I'm sorry to hear that.

You sure this isn't covered under the numerous recalls for 97 SOHCs?

 

[yob_yeknom]

How many miles are on your truck? The guides have an extended warranty. You may be able to get a new engine, or whatever repairs are necessary, for free.

Yes, the engine does have to be removed to replace the chains, but there are only 2 timing chains. Are you sure your shop know what they're talking about? Also, there may not be as much damage done as they suggest.

 

[IgotTwo]

I don't know your mileage or circumstances but:
Ford’s Customer Program is called "PO7" for out of warranty "disasters." There are also warranty extensions on camshaft failures.

My 97 SOHC blew at 58K. The official post mortem was the rear chain sprocket on the passenger side cam spun 180 degrees. And everyone knows, on an interference engine, that's not a good thing. The valves whacked the pistons and bent.

To get the "better" treatment under PO7, they check their OASIS system to see if you are a good dealership customer. i.e. you bring the vehicle in regularly to FORD dealership for repair and maintenance.

If you go that route….good luck, it’s not fun ...do your homework and bring a BULLSHIT filter (two ply and a spare just in case)

Don't let them tell you can't talk to the rep....because you have every right to. Otherwise the dealer tells the rep what they want him to know.

 

[mattanderson31]

timing chains

I am quite sure that there are 4 timing chains on this engine - three are visible with the front cover off and the fourth is in the rear of the engine - which is why engine removal is required to change it.

I have 106,000 on the car. One mechanic told me about the recall on the timing guides, but that recall was up to 70 or 75 thousand. A specific question to the dealer about recalls didn't help me out either. They said no.

What is the PO7 program you were talking about? Also, when your timing went out, what did it cost to fix? Did you find someone to rebuild your engine or did you buy a rebuilt one to install.

Has anyone put in a different engine? For instance, install an OHV engine instead of this monster? I know the computer would have to be changed, but what about wiring harnesses, etc? Doing that might not make much of a difference now, but in 70,000 miles I don't want to go through this mess again!

Matt

 

[IgotTwo]

Price a remanufacturered engine like a Jaspers
Rebuilding an engine with known design flaws and recalled parts may be throwing good money after bad.

I think jasper's guaranttees all the most recent part upgrades. Remanufactured engines get a good going over. vs a rebuilt or rebuilding. I know my new one was newer designed SOHC.

I know Ford thought I was going to pay close to $5K
Ford paid 80% on mine under the program and I got a 100K powertrain warranty. With over 100k, I don't think Fords Customer Service Reps will even talk to you

I know its not fun, I've been there
Check out a remanufactured if you plan to keep it.

Good Luck

 

[Robert]

Re: timing chains

Originally posted by mattanderson31
I am quite sure that there are 4 timing chains on this engine - three are visible with the front cover off and the fourth is in the rear of the engine - which is why engine removal is required to change it.

I have 106,000 on the car. One mechanic told me about the recall on the timing guides, but that recall was up to 70 or 75 thousand. A specific question to the dealer about recalls didn't help me out either. They said no.

What is the PO7 program you were talking about? Also, when your timing went out, what did it cost to fix? Did you find someone to rebuild your engine or did you buy a rebuilt one to install.

Has anyone put in a different engine? For instance, install an OHV engine instead of this monster? I know the computer would have to be changed, but what about wiring harnesses, etc? Doing that might not make much of a difference now, but in 70,000 miles I don't want to go through this mess again!

Matt

The camshaft tensioners were covered for 6 years, 72K miles through ONP 00M12. The front left camshaft chain guide was coverd for 7 years, 100K miles under ONP 01M01. Also, P07 supposedly can only be used at up to 50K miles, but apparently some Dealers grant a little leeway. I doubt that they would grant much though at 106K miles. You would stand a better chance fighting it using the ONP 01M01 as your basis. Did Ford document any noisce conerns on your VIN within the last 12K miles? If so then you should still be covered. Good luck, my '97 SOHC has 95K miles on it now and I don't have a warm fuzzy feeling since I still have the plastic chain guides.

 

[Bzz]

If Ford releases a TSB. They dont' actually notify you of a problem, correct? So you only get the repair done involved with that particular TSB if you bring in your car with a complaint that relates to it?

....if Ford released a service bulletine for, say a 97 X, most of them are already out of warranty, would they extend the warranty on that particular part for a reasonable amount of time so those people who have the problem could bring it in and get it fixed?

....so if I have a complaint about my car..should I take it to the service dept at a Ford dealership and hope a TSB is out for it or should I just come here and ask around and try to diagnose and fix it myself?.

It's cuz I see a lot of service bulletins for my SOHC that I'm sure i've never brought in to do..

 

[Robert]

Correct, when Ford issues a TSB, you will not be notified of it. The dealer gets a list about every month of new TSBs. If there memory is good or they are willing to go back and look at their old records, they might get lucky and find a TSB that pertains to a particular problem. Unfortunately, my experience is that unless the TSB is no more than a couple of months old, they won't remember it (unless they have been getting a flood of complaints). You are better off either getting a subscription to Alldata and doing the research yourself or you can pay a small fee to Helm for each TSB you request a print out of. You can also order copies of the TSB from NHTSA's web-site as well for a small fee. Remember though that just because it is a TSB, does not mean that Ford will repair it at no charge. All a TSB is is a bulletin for the dealer to troubleshoot common problems. If the problems get too common or create a significant safety or emmisisons risk, they will be forced to issue a recall. If it becomes a recall then they will attempt to contact you and will fix the problem at no charge under the terms of the recall. The two ONPs (Owner Notification Programs) that I listed above kind of fall in between a TSB and a Recall. They started out as a TSB and got updated several times. Ford wasn't forced to issue a recall on the affected parts, but they did recognize that there were an unusually high number of failures so they issued the ONP. An ONP is just what it says "Owner Notification Program". They send out letters to owners notifying them of the problems and in these two instances extended the warranty on the suspect parts. Ford did a similar thing regarding the SOHC throttle body which later became a recall.

 

[mattanderson31]

noise and recalls

I just took the truck in a few months ago for engine noise. A short time later I took the truck in to have the fuel lines replaced and they replaced the throttlebody at no charge under that recall you spoke of. The truck was already over 100k at that point. Are you suggesting that it is possible I can get some money or help on this problem and that the ford dealer possibly didn't bother to research the recalls or warranty information?

 

[mattanderson31]

noise concerns

You mentioned that I should still be covered if ford documented any noise concerns in the past twelve thousand miles. I don't understand why that means I should still be covered. Would you explain?

My initial inquiry to Ford, of course, was unfruitful. They were very pleasant, but said sorry they couldn't help.

Matt

 

[97emerald]

What Robert was trying to say, (I think) is that if the dealer documented a noise complaint before the mileage or time expiration of the onp, then you would have a better chance of getting them to give you some help with your problem.

 

[Robert]

Correct. Ford warrants their repairs for 12 months, 12K miles. If you had it in within the past 12K miles and got a Service Report documenting concerns about noise from the engine, it would go a long ways towards swaying their decision from "no way are we going to cover an engine with 106K miles on it" to " maybe there is something we can do to assist with the price". If you don't have anything to document noise concerns, then as far as they are concerned you are coming to them for the first time outside of the extended warranty that they so graciously extended to you (sarcasm towards Ford here).

 

[IgotTwo]

Unless someone is a Ford Customer Rep.....I think a bit of realizism is in order so we do not inflate any hopes.

Ford doesn't wan to hear anything about a vehicle with over 100K. Even if you established a pre-existing condition. I went though this with only 58K and within two 12K/12 month repair warranties for cam related recall work ...FROM a Blue Oval dealership WITH a good reputation.
(not to mention the other 72K cam related warranties out there)

It was like pulling teeth...
Not what you what to hear but I just went through it.

Dump the block and the parts the mechanic may think are good to rebuild and get a remanufactured with all the upgrades and "corrections".
Think about it!