4.6L Explorer engine timing chain ooops!

[customford03]

1997 4.6L DOHC 4V SVT cobra motor

Do you know what the diamitor of the stock hyrmanic balancer (crank shaft pully) is the one i pulled off the car is about 5 1/4 in in diamator and the one I got from nappa is 7 in in diamator ford wants like $200 for one from them and i got the one from nappa for $100 , and what is a comon problem with a 2000 explorer 4.0 sohc it sounds like a deisel at idel any one looking for a pair of brand new ford raceing headers for 4.6 2 v I was told i bought the last pair they are not avable any more comes with new gaskits and new bolts ?

 

[ArthurJGuy]

TTT with this, did we ever determine what causes it?

My 02 4.6L X has the same issue, I am in the process of tearing it down and am finding pieces of timing chain guide in the cam area and the chain is very loose.

It has a noise like the chain was bring drug across something metal (most likely the tensioner like the OP) but it ran just fine, I drove it for two days this way.

BTW, I remember now why I got rid of my Mustang, this engine is a pain in the arse to work on compared to my GTO, and the truck has more room.

 

[fornetti14]

I'm going the new motor route when mine finally goes. I've found new OEM 4.6L motors for around $2,000.

 

[Pontisteve]

The mod motors have a problem with age, with the guides. Some say harmonics of the motor get to them. Sometimes the aluminum actually breaks, and sometimes the nylon just wears out or breaks off. Once that happens, you've got bigtime chain slack. Sometims the chain just wears right thru the nylon and thru the aluminum and rides on the tensioner itself.

Let me know what you find in your O2 ArthurJGuy. My 03 has made a mild noise for the last 25,000 miles and never gotten worse. I suspect its wearing thru the guide and riding on the aluminum some.

Also let me know what you end up needing for special tools. Im curious about needing fan clutch wrenches, and if you need the 2v cam timing kit or not.

 

[ArthurJGuy]

Well I got the motor torn down and 90% put back together.

Driver side the guide and tensioner arm were both worn all the way through, the chain wore down the tensioner itself.

Passenger side, guide is missing (found it in pieces in the cover), tensioner arm also worn all the way through with the chain wearing the tensioner itself down.

I used the Fan clutch tools and a power steering pulley puller. I need to wrap up a few things to finish the assembly tomorrow.

 

[Pontisteve]

Yep, that seems to be par for the course. Although often seems only 1 side gets it.

So did you need the cam timing tools, or are you able to just leave the motor still while popping the chain off and back on?

Could you tell me exactly what fan clutch tools I'll need?

What kind of noise did this thing make before the catastrophic failures began?

Did you have to replace the chains too, or just the guides and tensioners?

 

[ArthurJGuy]

No cam timing tools, the cams will not rotate freely because of the valvetrain which holds them in place. When you install the new chains there are two different color links on each chain, one of those links goes to the dot on the cam gear and one goes to the dot on the crank sprocket.

Go into an autozone and rent a fan clutch tool kit, they only make one. It is two giant wrenches, one is about 2.5" and one is 1.5" I think. One goes over the four bolts on the waterpump and one goes over the nut on the fan clutch assembly.

I got a full timing set (chains, guides, tensioner, crank sprocket, cam gears, etc) before doing this project. The chains may not have needed it, but it is SO much work to get to this damn thing I wouldn't consider not replacing everything while I am in here, I'd hate to do it twice.

It sounded like a chain being drug across metal, if you have a bike flip it upside down and pedal it and stick a wrench in the chain, there you go.

I bought it this way knowing what the issue was, and drove it for the last 3 days, it ran just fine juts made a little noise.

 

[ArthurJGuy]

I'm going the new motor route when mine finally goes. I've found new OEM 4.6L motors for around $2,000.

I paid less than that for my truck, new timing set, registration, smog, full tank of gas, and lunch.

Why pay $2,000 when you need a couple hundred bucks in parts?

 

[Pontisteve]

My 03 has had a hard-to-prove noise for the last 25K. Sounds just like a catalytic converter heat shield rattle. Really difficult to pin down, since it seems to be load-sensative. Goes away at idle and cruise, makes noise on light and medium acceleration. Goes away during shifting (likely due to the EFI using torque management to reduce timing/power/load during shifts). I smacked the heat shields and exhaust with a mallet, and couldn't find anything loose or rusted to the point of rattling.

The noise change during load clued me in to the fact it was probably motor. Nothing hard core like rods, and since the valvetrain on these things doesn't really ever make noise, that puts it in the front cover. Too difficult to stethoscope with a clutch fan and the motor needing a load on it. I have been waiting to see if the problem worsens to the point I can pinpoint it. Theres always the possibility of a torque converter noise I suppose too, but less likely. These mod motors are known for this issue as well. Problem is I haven't found anybody else that describes the noise the same way. Also, that noise (until it worsens) is muted by the timing cover itself and general engine noise.

On a 4V race car that broke a guide completely once, I hear it sound just like a rod or main knock. I'm guessing mine is slowly wearing thru the guide and probably the aluminum. Haven't seen any hardcore proof in the oil either, which confuses me. I expected to see some nylon or aluminum shavings.

Do you think when these things wear thru the guides and aluminum, that it could act as an abrasive to the crank bearings? Or the filter catches enough of it to not wear the bearings?

 

[2000StreetRod]

Metal particles

. . .

On a 4V race car that broke a guide completely once, I hear it sound just like a rod or main knock. I'm guessing mine is slowly wearing thru the guide and probably the aluminum. Haven't seen any hardcore proof in the oil either, which confuses me. I expected to see some nylon or aluminum shavings.

Do you think when these things wear thru the guides and aluminum, that it could act as an abrasive to the crank bearings? Or the filter catches enough of it to not wear the bearings?

A good quality filter such as Mobil 1 or Amsoil will probably prevent the metal particles from getting to the rod/main/cam bearings but it won't keep the particles from entering the oil pump. You may experience premature oil pump failure.

 

[Pontisteve]

Go into an autozone and rent a fan clutch tool kit, they only make one. It is two giant wrenches, one is about 2.5" and one is 1.5" I think. One goes over the four bolts on the waterpump and one goes over the nut on the fan clutch assembly.

Those wrenches are probably metric. I tried looking up what set is needed, so I could just go buy them. But for some reason it's real hard to tell which fan wrenches the 4.6 needs. Any chance you can tell for sure, in metric, how big those wrenches needed are?

 

[ArthurJGuy]

Those wrenches are probably metric. I tried looking up what set is needed, so I could just go buy them. But for some reason it's real hard to tell which fan wrenches the 4.6 needs. Any chance you can tell for sure, in metric, how big those wrenches needed are?

This will fill you in on the wrench sizes.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209262

 

[Explore06]

Just a quick question...just traded for an 06 explorer Eddie Bauer 4.6l and seems to have an exhaust leak on startup. Goes away after warming up a bit. Is this the exhaust or the timing chain guides? Also a slight leak from #3 cylinder sparkplug...any comments?

 

[Explore06]

Also, is this common on the 3v 4.6lengines also?

 

[ArthurJGuy]

Just a quick question...just traded for an 06 explorer Eddie Bauer 4.6l and seems to have an exhaust leak on startup. Goes away after warming up a bit. Is this the exhaust or the timing chain guides? Also a slight leak from #3 cylinder sparkplug...any comments?

Yes, start a new thread related to your issues, they do not appear to be related to this issue.

 

[Pontisteve]

This will fill you in on the wrench sizes.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209262

That thread is for 5.0 motors. I need sizes for 4.6, and am not sure they're the same.

 

[XLRVIII]

Do my symptoms and noises match up with what your customer had?

ahh the dreaded tensioner rattle in mod motors.

Do this steve.
When you first start it up (cold start)
rather than just cranking it up and starting it

press and hold the gas pedal to the floor, while holding the pedal down, crank the motor for 4-5 seconds, then release the gas pedal and restart.

This will prime the tensioner and virtually eliminate the noise and 90% of the wear.

I had to do this on my 95 mark 8 when it chunked a secondary chain tensioner.

Drove the car for almost 40K/1000 dragstrip passes with a bad tensioner.

 

[Pontisteve]

So what is it that you think is actually happening? The tensioner itself is bad? The older ones (96-98 for sure) had a little plastic ratchet mechanism so it would always take up at least as much slack as it had the last time it was run. It was a one-way ratcheting tightener, in addition to an oil-pressure fed tensioner. Not sure on my 03 if it's like that, but I think they revised it somehow compared to the older one.

If you crank the motor at WOT, it cuts fuel, so you can spin the motor over before firing. While I understand that would build oil pressure, so would just running the motor for that long, no?


On a separate note, I did some research on fan clutch tools. For modular motors, Ford calls for this:

303-239 57mm pulley holding tool 2 1/4" OTC# 7204E1
303-240 36mm nut wrench 1 7/16" OTC# 7204E2

These come in a 2 piece kit from OTC, part# OTC 7204E.

They should fit all 2.8, 2.9, 3.0, 4.0, 4.9, 5.0, 5.8, and 7.5 gas motors from what I can tell. OTC makes a 5 piece Ford fan clutch set, but it doesn't come with either of these tools. It appears that Lisle 41800, KD Tools 3136, and Astro Pneumatics 7895 also have these tools, although most of them are larger kits. It's also slightly questionable about exactly what size wrenches the KD tools kit comes with. I think one wrench might be a touch bigger.

Best deal I found for the OTC 7204E was amazon.com, under a vendor (not amazon itself). Next best deal was from usatoolwarehouse.com.

For the KD kit, it was Ebay. Lisle was Amazon. Astro Pneumatics was amazon or tooltopia, both actually from tooltopia anyway.

FYI, it seems most GM's take the 36mm and also a 60mm (2 3/8). Most Jeep/Dodges take the 36mm and also a 76mm (3"). It would be ideal to find a kit that came with a 36mm, 60mm, and 76mm. I couldn't find one.

 

[ArthurJGuy]

That thread is for 5.0 motors. I need sizes for 4.6, and am not sure they're the same.

They are the same, and I had the same issue he had with the autozone tool also.

 

[XLRVIII]

If you crank the motor at WOT, it cuts fuel, so you can spin the motor over before firing. While I understand that would build oil pressure, so would just running the motor for that long, no?.

well under cranking RPM the motor is turning over slower, it wont be slapping the chain around the whole time until the tensioner pumps up.

Are you using the Motorcraft 820 "S" filter?

If not, you should be

The "S" is for the silcone anti drainback valve that helps keep the oil pump primed and doesnt let the oil run back thru the filter.