4x4 Problem, U-Joints, Hubs? Both? Need help asap please

[HxCGuitars]

Hey everyone, literally just joined because I'm getting my butt handed to me by expenses right now and desperately need advice. Very new to the 4x4 world.

Anyways, my problem. Just did a brake job on my 94 4.0 Ranger 4x4. When we put everything together, I noticed a lot of grease in my hubs, but just learning the parts as we went, I didn't suspect anything. We did grease the parts that went on the spline (spindle thing? Sorry) that include the cams and what not.

After the job we backed it out and I was having trouble with my 4x4 that I'm still having. Granted I had to reverse back and forth to get my hubs to engage before the job, but now I don't think I can get it at all.

From the repair manual it almost looked like parts by missing so I took it to the Ford dealer I just bought it from and asked them to see if I had parts missing. They took it apart, were unhappy I did my own brake job, and said my u-joints were frozen up and binding and my auto hubs were shot.

The hubs look fine on the inside to me, but what do I know? Today after researching I did the whole clean the hubs thing and soak them in ATF to get rid of all the grease inside. Still having issues.

What happens is I press the 4x4 button, the lights illuminate, and I hear a small clink. If I'm rolling or start rolling I hear a lot of clunking and ratcheting, sometimes thumping. My biggest concern is around any slight corner, and even sometimes in a straight line, it feels like somethings binding in the axle, with the whole front end kind of hopping. All is well in 4x2.

My driveway is a huge hill that needs 4x4 to go up. I started to go up, and was going too slowly so got stuck. I backed up to get a running start, and I could see two spots where my front tires had bit into the snow, so something's going on up front. But again, I've got the binding and clunking and the whole front end kind of hops.

So is this my u-joints? Hubs? Both? I want to do a manual hub conversion, but funds are very short being in college, and I just bought tires, plugs, wires, oil, etc. Any help is greatly appreciated and sorry for the novel of sorts.

*UPDATE WITH VIDEO*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDR95xR2yrY

 

[racer_x_one]

I'm no expert and don't know as much as others on the forum...but it sounds like your u-joints are shot and binding causing your issue. I'm sure your auto hubs are shot too they're crap to begin with. You should replace your u-joints and do the upgrade as you wanted.

Turn your wheels to one dirrection, jack up one side, remove the wheel and get down there and see if you can turn the axle shaft by hand and watch the u-joint and see what you see/feel (if it binds).

 

[wood1]

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122696

and

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206722

and

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191429

 

[wood1]

and

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149326&pp=20&page=2

 

[acschilling]

Dude I just had the exact same problem. Totally normal two wheel drive but when the buttons are pushed and after the relays click...moving in either directions produces a deathly clunking in the front end! I figured my auto hubs were shot and bought some mile marker manual locking hubs hoping to fix the problem...during the swap I found out the autohubs were done for or soon would be if I were using four wheel drive. Whoever touched the auto hubs last put the pin in the wheel bearing retainer nut backwards! jamming the fat end in and cracking that nut. The mile markers went on great and look sweet but it didn't stop the clunking a 4x4 shop, a couple days later diagnosed the u joints on the front driveshaft were doneso. 1000 or so bucks later and I'm good to go...no way! Took it home despite the safety hazards..psshh and had the front driveshaft off in 20 mins. I bought a used front driveshaft online for 111 bucks but haven't recieved it yet. I'll try and keep you updated if you'd like..I just finished my lift...pain in my ass! I had to get creative to defeat(or work around) the rust! New tires, can't wait to play

My story :thumbdwn:

 

[HxCGuitars]

racer, I'll try that tomorrow.

acschilling, I'd definitely like you to keep my updated. I've done a few good things with cars but am definitely still learning, and the u-joints in the front definitely intimidate me. I'm calling a shop to get a quote tomorrow. If the damage is too much I'll look into how I could do it myself, just not sure if I have the right tools and all. Still looking to do a cam and m90 install on my stang in the coming years for some reason I'm a lot less intimidated working on that car.

wood1, thanks for the links to the threads. I wish the pics were still up for the washer fix. I'll have to read through and see if I can get a handle on what's being talked about.

Oh, and of course my 4x4 starts acting up right when it snows basically the first time this season



I'll probably end up going for some manual hub swaps. #Anyone know if I went to the junkyard and picked some up off a ranger or explorer, what other parts should I grab off the spindle? #Basically the whole assembly to be safe? #That'd be my "cheap" fix for now I suppose. #Going to school three hours away from home doesn't help my situation. #I need cheap fixes and I need them now haha, especially with my break ending in a week.

Also, from time to time while trying to mess with it I'll hear a wom wom (kind of noise you hear from a lifted truck with 35's coming to a stop on a highway) wom wom THUMP noise...have also heard this is another sign my u-joints are shot, is this true?

 

[racer_x_one]

racer, I'll try that tomorrow.

acschilling, I'd definitely like you to keep my updated. I've done a few good things with cars but am definitely still learning, and the u-joints in the front definitely intimidate me. I'm calling a shop to get a quote tomorrow. If the damage is too much I'll look into how I could do it myself, just not sure if I have the right tools and all. Still looking to do a cam and m90 install on my stang in the coming years for some reason I'm a lot less intimidated working on that car.

wood1, thanks for the links to the threads. I wish the pics were still up for the washer fix. I'll have to read through and see if I can get a handle on what's being talked about.

Oh, and of course my 4x4 starts acting up right when it snows basically the first time this season



I'll probably end up going for some manual hub swaps. #Anyone know if I went to the junkyard and picked some up off a ranger or explorer, what other parts should I grab off the spindle? #Basically the whole assembly to be safe? #That'd be my "cheap" fix for now I suppose. #Going to school three hours away from home doesn't help my situation. #I need cheap fixes and I need them now haha, especially with my break ending in a week.

Also, from time to time while trying to mess with it I'll hear a wom wom (kind of noise you hear from a lifted truck with 35's coming to a stop on a highway) wom wom THUMP noise...have also heard this is another sign my u-joints are shot, is this true?

If you going to pull them from a yard you'll need these parts from each spindle...inner retaining nut for the bearing, lock washer and the outter lock nut, and of course the manual locking hub.

As far as the noise and the mention of lifted trucks on 35's, I'm not sure , if the hubs arn't locked then the front shafts won't be turning. But you still might get some noise when you turn because the u-joints are still flexing even though the shafts aren't turning.

 

[HxCGuitars]

Awesome, thanks for the picture! Not sure where the # symbols came from in my last post...my laptop was kinda crapping itself but I don't know haha.

The part that still confuses me is that my front wheels definitely were turning when I came up my driveway as there'd be no way I would've made it up, and I also saw where they bit in. So something's almost working up there, I just had a lot of popping and hopping while I was going up it.

 

[Naasau]

Clicking and ratcheting loudly isn't all that unusual when the auto hubs are trying to engage; your U joints and hubs you can check fairly easily and they are cheap to replace till you get some money under your belt for upgrades.

As for hopping/binding, on dry pavement your truck will do that. Every 4x4 does. We have 'locked' transfer cases that force the front and rear drive-shafts to rotate at the same speed, which isn't a problem in slippery terrain, but is instantly noticeable when you get full traction on all four tires, as it causes binding, hopping, and skitterish behavior all over the place. I haven't looked through the links that wood posted yet, but he's a smart guy, and I'll bet that they outline exactly what you need to do to diagnose your issue and save you some green.

And if you find that your auto hubs ARE shot, I have a spare set that aren't, and you can have em for the price of shipping. I saved up and grabbed a set of 'upgraded' manual hubs and even better brakes/knuckles (ones that don't suck like ours do).

 

[Naasau]

as far as the 'wum-wum', is it coming from the engine or a unspecified resonation sound-like thing?

 

[kkjb4x4.0]

Hang on here you said mostly turning? If the road is not slippery than you cannot use 4x4,the front end will bind up.Your gonna need a special socket to get those manual hubs off at the jy, make sure if you find some to get all the parts. Make sure you check the u joints in the front axles as well as the front driveshaft. If you are gonna do those yourself and need direction check out "therangerstation". Good luck! while your in there check the weel bearing as well!

 

[wood1]

There is a link at the end of the auto hug washer fix thread to a .pdf of the thread including the pictures.

 

[HxCGuitars]

I tried engaging it in a good 4 inches of snow last night, and was greeted by the hopping and popping. Should it be binding even over a slight turn? I understand a tight turn. My friend's jeep was accidentally left stuck in 4x4 and we didn't notice after mudding until he made a sharp turn. Even when I went offroading a bit and was going around you could feel it popping over a slight turn.

The wom wom wom is definitely from the driver's front wheel. Originally thought it was part of my new tires breaking in until I heard it while trying to engage the 4x4.

I know it's not supposed to be engaged on dry pavement, and I don't. As I was coming up my driveway with 4 inches of snow at least on it, it was hopping and popping going in a straight line.

If I engage it on the fly I'll hear ratcheting and clanking going with the revolutions of the wheels, along with the binding and hopping feeling coming from the front end.

Also, wheel bearings were packed and in good shape from the brake job. Wood, looking at the pictures now, thanks.

 

[Naasau]

Well, that doesn't sound healthy at all. (duh) A quick way to check your u-joints is just to grab them and see if they're loose, or if they look bound up. I would also check the front drive-shaft, and it's respective U joint and CV joint. Hopping about in a strait line on snow sounds really weird to me; do you have jack stands so that you can get the whole front end up off the ground?

 

[kkjb4x4.0]

Was'nt sure if you were on snow or not.Sounds like u joints to me.

 

[HxCGuitars]

Alright thanks, I'll call a shop today. Just finished an oil change and afterwards I'll jack one end up and take the wheel off to look at the u-joints and try to turn them.

Naasau, I do have jack stands, but am having trouble finding a location to jack it up to place them. I jack it up on the bolt right under the front coil springs, then put a stand under the frame because if I leave it for more than half an hour my jack starts to lower. If I lower it completely with the wheels still on, they touch the ground again as the suspension unloads. It's a low profile jack I bought for my Mustang, not really designed to lift a truck a foot off the ground, you know?

The dealer told me the u-joints were basically completely locked up, but they said that at the same time they were angry at me for doing my own brake job and immediately also said the u-joints are an intensive job, so I felt like they were just trying to scare me into it and just wanted me to bring it back to them. Wanted $900 for both front hubs and $130 for the front u-joints before labor. I said helllll no.

 

[Naasau]

And boy were you right! Forget those guys!

I'd say try your hand at swapping out the u-joints yourself, they really aren't that scary, and since you're going to be replacing them anyways.... you could always use precise adjustments with the proper tool in capacious quantities (see BFH ). Being that you've already done the brakes and repacked the bearings, you already possess way more skill than is necessary to handle a couple of u-joints. Just remember that anti-seize like BP blaster is your friend.

For jackstanding, I push up on the axle arm inboard of the bolt below the coil spring, as that is my favorite spot for jackstands; you could accomplish this even with a scissor jack (not that I would recommend something like this without liquid courage and a few friends) if you have the jack down, and add a chunk of 4x4 wood or some big blocks of scrap steel. (I went to home depot and talked them out of a bunch of 8-10" blocks of pressure treated 4x4 posts for free that I now use for everything from tire chocks, to jack stand spacers, to welding bases... which can get exciting) That way you can get both sides of your X up at the same time, and at the same height. To be really fancy, I once checked my 4x4 system by putting all four corners on jackstands and engaging her in D, so I could crawl around and look for binding/noises/hub clicking/other.

^^^DO NOT GO UNDER YOUR TRUCK IF YOU DO THAT^^^

It could get a bit too exciting for some people.

 

[wood1]

Seized u-joints will cause those problems. The driver's side is not so hard to change but the passenger side front axle has 2 u-joints in it and that axle is held into the differential by a clip which is only accessible by opening the front diff. You can (I did) torch out the inner passenger side u-joint and just change the outer as you normally would. You need a u-joint installer tool, a small press.

This thread talks about how to increase the durability of your front axles:

http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/May06/dana35_ujoint_snapring.htm

This thread shows the front axle and how to install a spring to retain the passenger side axle and eliminate that clip inside the differential:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256302&highlight=eliminator

 

[Naasau]

Wood, do you think that the center u-joint for the passenger side would be shot as well?

 

[wood1]

Likely. If the outers are seized the inner is probably as well. I would think that the outers get flexed much more than the inner. If I was going through the trouble to do the passenger side outer I would do them both. At least then you know what you have. It would suck if you did the outer then 6 months later you are doing the inner.

When you get the outer passenger side out you will be able to better check the inner.

If you are going to make your truck into a trail machine maybe you should consider doing the c-clip eliminator mod. Then you can easily change that axle if you break it wheelin'. Guys carry spare axles if they take it seriously usually.