5.0 Radiator interchange?

[JoshT]

Any radiator that has sat outside I would not use the tranmission cooler. Any water in there will rust it out and in a while you will be mixing water with trans fluid which will kill your trans. Simple solution is to bypass the internal cooler and run dual factory trans coolers

Found this out the hard way more then once

I hear you, but way it was sitting it has t had a chance to get water in that part. Even what came out of the radiator still had antifreeze in it.

I will be running dual factory coolers since I've got three of them. The 5R55E appears to use the same cooler, so truck already had one, and I've got two more from the V8 Explorers. For now I'm probably just going to run the one, but the nose will come apart for a facelift and the second will be added.

FWIW, ordered a new radiator anyway. Didn't want to use the single row that came in the Ex donor, and we found a torn flue in the dual core. At about $100 on Amazon, it wasn't worth trying to fix. If fix didn't hold I'd have to pull it all back out again.

It is such a small trans cooler anyway, it's a good time to upgrade to a bigger external unit.

More of a trans heater than cooler. It does provide some cooling bu,t considering that these have a separate cooler, it's more important job (in some areas) is to help get the fluid up to temp. Probably not an issue here, but it's there so I'm going to keep it plumbed.

 

[JoshT]

I understand your argument for using the V6 radiator and condenser, but I will be sticking with the V8 stuff for the time being.

The AC system in the Explorer was fully functional and I was able to remove it intact without discharging the system.

Might swap over down the road if the AC system ever needs to be opened up.

Well the V8 swap is "done" and that didn't last long. Turns out the Explorer and the weather were teaming up to play tricks on me. The day I brought the donor home, the EATC wouldn't let me set a temperature below 60 and the outside air was cold. I think what I felt and thought was working AC was actually jusat cold outside air being blown through the vents. That system didn't have enough charge in it to make the compressor cycle. Turns out that was probably a good thing because we tried to fix and charge it this weekend only to discover that the compressor is bad. With clutch engaged, it won't pressurize the high side.

Looks like I'm going to be swapping out some components sooner than expected. Further studying on the parts shows that the difference between the 4.0 and 5.0 compressor is the pulley diameter, the 4.0 is 4.5" and 5.0 is 5" (might have that backwards). I know my 4.0 compressor was working good and the 5.0 compressor clutch is working, so I may just swap them out and re-use my old compressor. I know that bad compressor means that the condenser should also be replaced, so I'm thinking about just flushing and reinstalling the truck's original 4.0L unit.

The evaporator should be good since any debris should have been caught by the orifice tube screens and the PAG oil drained out of the existing receiver drier (since replaced) was relatively clean. I think someone opened the system and started repairing it, but didn;t know what tehy were doing and didn't go far enough. The drained PAG oil was the yellow/green leak detect stuff and I suspect the orifice tube was installed backwards.

The v6 radiators do not support the ac condenser
No only a v8 radiator had the provisions for the clip. The reason they did this is because the 5.0 fan sticks out 1” more then v6

It is not uncommon for us to use a v6 rad in a v8 truck and vise versa you can simply run the v6 lower metal bracket to hang the condenser, heck I have even fastened the condenser to the radiator
With zip ties. Whatever it takes to make a complete Cooling stack with the parts on hand

It'll be a few weeks before I dig back in, but want to ensure I understand correct. I can use the original V6 condenser with the V8 radiator, if I reinstall the lower bracket marked in @CDW6216R's shot of the core support and that bracket fits with the V8 radiator? I'd removed that bracket thinking it wouldn't fit with the radiator, but I still have it sitting outside the shop.

I could secure to radiator with zipties, but I'd rather use the bracket since I have it.

Ditto, that V6 condenser lower mounting bracket is the key, it will work for any of the Explorer radiators.

View attachment 450288

Atleast it'll be easier to separate the radiator and condenser this time since the system is known enpty and I can just disconnect the lines and do it outside the truck.



Other AC system question pertains to the orifice tube.

All information I can find online suggests that it should be installed with red end towards the condenser, since refridgerant flows from condenser to evaporator. Some things mention an arrow on the tube that shoudl point towards the evaporator or in the direction of flow, that arrow points towards the white end. Dad says the old one he removed was installed red end towards the evaporator core. I already suspected someone had tempered with the system previously, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone got confused, missremembered, and installed backwards.

So what direction is the orifice tube supposed to be oriented when properly installed? I'm thinking red end with the big screen/filter towards the condenser to catch debris, and the arrow pointed towards the eveporator in the direction of flow.

 

[Mesozoic]

Whatever you do, make sure that the entire system is evacuated and you're able to pull a vacuum on it and maintain that vacuum level. Chemical reactions between the materials in the HVAC system will, in time, create non-condensable gases that can only be separated from the refrigerant using a good quality recovery machine that incorporates a separator for this purpose. Once the system has been properly evacuated and is free from non-condensable gases will it be able to function as expected with clean refrigerant. If you ignore the prospect of non-condensable gases you will end up fighting the system, potentially throwing parts at it and continue to find intermittent cooling functionality at best.

 

[JoshT]

Whatever you do, make sure that the entire system is evacuated and you're able to pull a vacuum on it and maintain that vacuum level. Chemical reactions between the materials in the HVAC system will, in time, create non-condensable gases that can only be separated from the refrigerant using a good quality recovery machine that incorporates a separator for this purpose. Once the system has been properly evacuated and is free from non-condensable gases will it be able to function as expected with clean refrigerant. If you ignore the prospect of non-condensable gases you will end up fighting the system, potentially throwing parts at it and continue to find intermittent cooling functionality at best.

the vacuum part I know, but thanks for looking out.

Friday night I rented a vacuum pump from O'Reilly when I bought the new parts, and already we had a manifold set. Saturday we figured out that the vacuum pump would only pull the system down to 16 inches, and that one of the hoses on our manifold was bad. The system held at 16" overnight. Sunday morning I rented a manifold set and bought a larger pump from Harbor Freight. That pump pulled the system right down to 30" and we kept the pump on it for at least two hours. Then we figured out that the compressor is bad. Pulled the relay so that the clutch can not be engaged until I get the pump replaced and reinstall it.

I don't know much about the non-condensable gasses part, but when I say the system was empty, I mean it was EMPTY. While diagnosing (on Friday before renting equipment) we determined that the low pressure switch wasn't closing, so swapped out for a known good switch from the Ranger system. After that failed, we connected the manifold and no pressure registering on the gauges. When I started swapping out o-rings, nothing came out of the system. In hind sight I should have known by this point that the compressor was bad. We jumped the relay at one point to verify that the clutch worked, so even without refrigerant there should have been some pressure in the the system or a noticable leak as it bled out.

 

[Mesozoic]

It sounds like the lines themselves are fine, but if the compressor went south it's probably worth checking to make sure that the orifice tube isn't contaminated or clogged with debris from the compressor failing. I certainly had that situation and just replaced everything (compressor, condenser, lines and accumulator).

The non-condensable gas issue is only a concern if you're topping an already somewhat filled system up with more refrigerant. As the refrigerant itself degrades over time and generates non-condensable gases within its closed system, topping up the system would result in contaminated refrigerant that doesn't work very well. The right thing to do is to evacuate it completely and fill with fresh/recycled/clean refrigerant, but you've already evacuated it so don't have that issue at least!

 

[JoshT]

It sounds like the lines themselves are fine, but if the compressor went south it's probably worth checking to make sure that the orifice tube isn't contaminated or clogged with debris from the compressor failing. I certainly had that situation and just replaced everything (compressor, condenser, lines and accumulator).

The non-condensable gas issue is only a concern if you're topping an already somewhat filled system up with more refrigerant. As the refrigerant itself degrades over time and generates non-condensable gases within its closed system, topping up the system would result in contaminated refrigerant that doesn't work very well. The right thing to do is to evacuate it completely and fill with fresh/recycled/clean refrigerant, but you've already evacuated it so don't have that issue at least!

Got it.

Actually a new accumulator and orifice tube went in before we started vacuuming the system. Tube was dirty, but didn't look black death dirty.

Got a small scale. Turns out that in that attempt it only took about half an ounce of refrigerant. I think we did something wrong there. Even so, I suspect the compressor to be bad now so it and the condenser will be replaced before we try again. Not sure if I'm going to swap pullys and reuse the compressor that was on my 4.0L or buy a new one. I think I will use the Ranger condenser, but not sure if I'm going to buy new or reuse that too. The 4.0L AC was working fine when removed, but it did have 210k miles of use.

Might be a week or two before I get around to trying again.

 

[Mesozoic]

Not sure if the brand of the compressor matters here, but my first genuine Motorcraft compressor died after 25 miles of driving. Warranty replacement has been functioning well for several years now, though. Not sure if Four Seasons, Valeo or any other brands are higher quality or not, but given the PITA involved in replacing one it’s probably worth the discussion on this forum.

 

[JoshT]

Not sure if the brand of the compressor matters here, but my first genuine Motorcraft compressor died after 25 miles of driving. Warranty replacement has been functioning well for several years now, though. Not sure if Four Seasons, Valeo or any other brands are higher quality or not, but given the PITA involved in replacing one it’s probably worth the discussion on this forum.

If I buy one, it'll either be Four Seasons or GPD. Four Seems to be a good brand from what I can tell. GPD is actually headquartered locally and started out here as a local AC service shop.