5R55E not shifting from 2-3

[Brain]

Torque setting if you have a small torque wrench that goes this small:
8-10 ft*lb for the pan bolts
71-97 in*lb (INCH*pound, not foot*lb - divide by 12 to get ft*lb) for the valve body bolts

 

[Gcrop]

Excellent, excellent, excellent!!! Thanks a lot for the pics and more importantly the patience.

So after I remove the bracket the solenoid(s) will just slide out?

How much tranny fluid will I lose from just dropping the pan?

Anything else I should look at (double check) or clean while I am in there?

Geoff

 

[Brain]

Yes, they slide out the end without needing to remove the valve body. Do be careful when twisting/pulling them out and installing them they have o-rings that could be cut (causing internal leakage problems).

Since the torque converter can't be drained, expect to put back in around five quarts, but have more on hand. Don't overfill it. Maybe add three (through the dipstick) and then start checking the dipstick (while running). A trashcan lid works well to catch the fluid the first time, because without a drain plug, it comes out of the top of the pan.

Without knowing what the codes that are causing the OD light to blink are, I really don't have any other suggestions for what to check other than looking at the general condition of the fluid (metalic particles, brown instead of red, etc.). I think you can get the codes read for free at Autozone. OBDII is right (I think - I don't have an OBDII car/truck so I'm not sure). Anything more involved than that would require you to remove/replace the valve body.

 

[Gcrop]

Yes, they slide out the end without needing to remove the valve body. Do be careful when twisting/pulling them out and installing them they have o-rings that could be cut (causing internal leakage problems).

Since the torque converter can't be drained, expect to put back in around five quarts, but have more on hand. Don't overfill it. Maybe add three (through the dipstick) and then start checking the dipstick (while running). A trashcan lid works well to catch the fluid the first time, because without a drain plug, it comes out of the top of the pan.

Without knowing what the codes that are causing the OD light to blink are, I really don't have any other suggestions for what to check other than looking at the general condition of the fluid (metalic particles, brown instead of red, etc.). I think you can get the codes read for free at Autozone. OBDII is right (I think - I don't have an OBDII car/truck so I'm not sure). Anything more involved than that would require you to remove/replace the valve body.

I did go and get AZ to see if any codes were flashing through the OBDII scanner but it came up clean. Go figure, not sure if that was good or bad b/c I would like to know what is wrong but hopefully it is not something serious enough to trigger a code.

Should I only take out and inspect the EPC solenoid (farthest one to the back?) or should I pull all four and clean/inspect?

Is there some sort of adhesive for the gasket or just the gasket?

Should I replace the O-rings on the solenoids or is that just an option....does AZ (or similar) sell these?

Again, thanks for your patience and I will take pics for anyone who might need/want them.

Geoff

 

[Brain]

3) The o-rings on the solenoids are non-replaceable...just be conscious of them and they will be fine.

2) The pan gasket doesn't use an adhesive or sealant.

1) Since the hardest/messiest part would be done (getting the pan off and drained), I'd probably go on ahead and inspect/clean all SIX of the solenoid valves (even the two on the passenger side - it's only three more bolts). If you have an multi-meter you can check the resistances (multi-meters are pretty cheap).

 

[Gcrop]

OK, this is what all I did today (summarized). Changed the filter and took out all six solenoids, cleaned them good with the brake cleaner, checked the Ohms on all 6 (they read fine) and refilled with 4qts of new fluid. Now that I type it out it seems like we didn't do much of anything :fire: . We didn't really see a way to spray the EPC solenoid from inside the screen so we just sprayed the hell out of the screen from the outside as good as possible.

It still does the 2-3 shift deal though maybe not quite as bad (might just be psychologically better if you know what I mean). It still doesn't have the pep I think it shouldin first (like I am half way on the clutch in a 5spd). Though if I drop it into Manual 1 it seems to do much better. The O/D OFF light is still very intermittent and I can't really decipher if the tranny does worse (or better) with the O/D OFF light blinking. It has kind of had this oil-like burning smell though since I have had it (should have been a first sign there not to buy it, I know). Frustrating as can be!!! I might be forced to just take it somewhere and trust me, that is the last thing I want to do b/c I never take my vehicles anywhere except to get tires.

There are a few things I have questions/concerns about during the "process" today:

** When I was pulling out the shift solenoid, next to the EPC solenoid, something that looked like a piece of a VERY small gasket came with it. I took a picture but it might be a few days till I can get it posted. I didn't see anything that resembled where it might have come from.
**When my dad and I were pouring out the old fluid from the container it dripped into, we found 3 VERY small metal "things". Not sure how to explain them other than they were the size of the tip of a pen or so. Not really ball shaped but maybe more of a cylinder shape....again, VERY small.
**The shift solenoid on the side with only two, closest to the front of the truck.....when I was putting it back in it was the only one that had a spring pushing it back out. To the point where I had to hold it in while I put the retaining bracket back on. Was it supposed to be pushing out like that? None of the others did.


Finally, I am going to Louisiana (850ish miles round trip) this coming weekend and the truck seems fine in 4th and 5th I think (2,000rpm at 60mph).....do you think it will make it for this one trip and I will get it in the shop or something when I get back?

A lot of info but I would be Greatly appreciated for Brain or Chris (or anyone else)to give me some feedback or what you can tell me, if anything.

Thanks a lot!!
Geoff

 

[Glacier991]

I wish I could chime in with some magic bullet advice..... but I think you have done all you can. I would hope that the Ford dealer would hook up the tester and run the trannie thru the gears using the tester and see if the tester can command the 2-3 shift. If not, I suspect you are looking at a rebuild.

As for your trip.... the "stuff" in the trannie pan concerns me, but I am going to imagine you are ok....don't take this advice to the bank.

 

[Gcrop]

I wish I could chime in with some magic bullet advice..... but I think you have done all you can. I would hope that the Ford dealer would hook up the tester and run the trannie thru the gears using the tester and see if the tester can command the 2-3 shift. If not, I suspect you are looking at a rebuild.

As for your trip.... the "stuff" in the trannie pan concerns me, but I am going to imagine you are ok....don't take this advice to the bank.

Thanks Chris......Approximately how much does Ford charge to just run the "tranny test"? Is there a thread here that compares the options of a rebuild vs replacement?

Geoff

 

[Gcrop]

I think Manual 1st is definitely better than "regular" 1st. My drive way has an incline to it and the "regular" 1st cimbs way too high in the RPM's to get it up the drive. Manual 1st seems to do a much better job. Other than that and the 2-3 shift issue, everything else seems to work well. Could this narrow down my problem?

Geoff

 

[Brain]

Geoff, have you considered doing a stall test to see if bands or clutches are slipping?

The small metal parts in the pan make me think that a bearing has worn away into its components - I'm suspecting that these are parts of a bearing/bearings. Does it look like a roller like this?:

This picture just shows two of the ten needle-bearings that would have the small cylinders like you stated.

 

[Gcrop]

Can you explain how to do a stall test please?

I will try and get those pics up here this afternoon, but they look smaller (not as long) as the ones in your picture.

Geoff

 

[Brain]

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113199&page=2&pp=20&highlight=stall+test

Look at post #34 at that link (how to do a stall test).

 

[Gcrop]

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113199&page=2&pp=20&highlight=stall+test

Look at post #34 at that link (how to do a stall test).

I am almost nervous to do that with an iffy tranny. I have been easing into the accelerator for the last two days and it seems to do better (though still not normal).

Some more observations:

***"regular" 1st gear doesn't really feel that bad until the O/D OFF light starts blinking, then it makes me nervous to climb my driveway. If the light isn't blinking then it seems to be able to climb the driveway much better. With the O/D OFF light blinking I can drop it into "Manual" 1st and it works much better (not sure if perfect would be the proper word).

***If I am being really easy on the accelerator, the 2-3 shift doesn't seem near as bad and in fact seems to shift somewhat smoothly about 10-15% of the time.

***All other gears seem to work properly. Whenever the O/D/ OFF light does start blinking I turn the truck off and then back on at a stopping point (red light, rush hour traffic, etc.)

I really don't want to go rebuilding or replacing when it only really has those two issues (1st, 2-3 shift).....especially since I just bought this truck a week ago.

Geoff

 

[Gcrop]

Here are the three metal pieces I found and the part of a gasket I found on top of the solenoid next to the EPC (third one from the front of the vehicle).

Thanks,
Geoff

 

[Brain]

I'm not sure where those metal pieces came from????

That gasket is part of one of the two valve body separator plate gaskets. This is allowing a pretty big leak and should be changed before you do anything else with it. It actually is letting leaks occur in three fluid passageways that should not be losing pressure like that. I can understand why you are having problems. If you don't replace these $4 gaskets, you will be looking at a mandatory rebuild coming up here pretty soon (burnt clutch packs/bands).

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=23135B&Category_Code=4R44Eg

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=23136B&Category_Code=4R44Eg

 

[Gcrop]

Thanks Brain. I am glad I am getting somewhere towards a solution. However, I drove the truck roughly 80 miles today and didn't have any problems with it except for the 2-3 shift and it has gottne much better since I did all of the things I described earlier. Maybe that quart of Lucas tranny fluid is helping a little bit. That stuf was so sticky and messy . Anyway, I will buy those two gaskets and try to replace them in two weekends (not this weekend but next). Just hope the tranny can give me about 1,000-1,200 more miles till I can get to it.

Thanks again Brain. Oh yea, are there pictures or anything on these gaskets in Chris's "Diary" that you know of? I see one is an upper and one is a lower but I still am not positive on where they go.

EDIT: Could this possibly be an AZ, NAPA, 'O Reilly's, etc. part?

Geoff

 

[Brain]

This picture is the valve body AND separator plate. Look to the lower right....this large hole is where the reverse servo goes and it is only in the plate, not the valve body. There is a gasket that goes above and below this (one between the sep. plate and valve body, and one between the sep. plate and transmission body) - I think you blew out the gasket between the valve body and sep. plate. The one that goes in this location won't have the hole for the reverse servo as it has a different gasket. In this photo, both gaskets are still in place (look around the edges and you might be able to see black gasket material). The valve body and separator plate must both be removed in order to replace that bottom gasket, so the top gasket needs to be replaced as well.

Not a AZ/Checker/NAPA part.....tranny parts distributors and maybe check the dealerships to see if they will order you one of each. Maybe check and see what they want to do the job and see if they give you a good price....

 

[Gcrop]

This picture is the valve body AND separator plate. Look to the lower right....this large hole is where the reverse servo goes and it is only in the plate, not the valve body. There is a gasket that goes above and below this (one between the sep. plate and valve body, and one between the sep. plate and transmission body) - I think you blew out the gasket between the valve body and sep. plate. The one that goes in this location won't have the hole for the reverse servo as it has a different gasket. In this photo, both gaskets are still in place (look around the edges and you might be able to see black gasket material). The valve body and separator plate must both be removed in order to replace that bottom gasket, so the top gasket needs to be replaced as well.

Not a AZ/Checker/NAPA part.....tranny parts distributors and maybe check the dealerships to see if they will order you one of each. Maybe check and see what they want to do the job and see if they give you a good price....

Great explanation! Now are you saying to ask what they would charge b/c it is something that I might not want to tackle? Or if they give me a decent price to just let them go ahead and do it? Is it just dropping the valve body and then putting a gasket on "top" of the seperator plate and then put one between the sep plate and the valve body...or is it much more involved than that?

Thanks Brain, you are helping out a ton! If you are ever traveling through Memphis (highly doubtful) and need a place to stay or anything, my house is your house.

Geoff

 

[Brain]

I guess I was saying that without a $100 diagnostic fee, knowing exactly what they have to change out (and therefore having the parts on hand so a lift isn't being used for very long), etc., that they might offer a decent price for the work.

Is is exactly that:
1) remove pan (in park)
2) remove filter
3) remove electrical connections
4) remove rear servo cover and gasket (4 bolts - spring loaded so watch out and unscrew equal amounts in round-robin style)
5) remove the numerous bolts that hold the valve body and plate (assembly) to the transmission
6) put it on a workbench (so you can see what you are doing)
7) slowly/carfully (and round robbin) loosen the three bolts that hold on the separator plate (torx bit bolts only accessable from the top of the plate) and remove the plate - note where the couple of spring-loaded 'pucks' go.
8) peel off old gaskets (might be stuck on pretty good) - you need to get all the gasket material off
9) use some ATF to wet the separator plate which will make the gaskets 'stick' to the plate
10) install the lower gasket and plate (being carful to get the pucks compressed and seated properly)
11) install (stick) the upper gasket to the plate
12) bolt it back onto the tranny (start with just a couple bolts on the outside to keep it in place and then insert and tighten starting from the center and working towards the outside.

If I remember correctly, there are four different lengths of bolts, so you want to make sure you get them put back into the right places.

Here's what the case looks like after you remove the valve body and seperator plate:

 

[Gcrop]

Excellent, that doesn't sound too far over my head. When I swing by Ford today to check on those gaskets I will get a price quote from them for installing them. If their price is worth me (and my dad) saving a Saturday then I might just let them do it. If it is a pretty high quote (which I expect) than I will just do it myself. Like I said, the way you described it, it doesn't sound too far out of my ability as long as we carefully document where everything went/came from.

Thanks Brain,
Geoff