92 XLT noise from front axle

[icymikeak]

The noise started at about 10-15 mph. It is a ratching/buzzing noise as if the 4WD is trying to engage but transfer case is in 2WD. I assumed it was a bad hub as I have replaced them before and it was the same noise. I put on a new (used) auto hub and the problem did not get fixed. Again at about 10 mph the ratching/buzzing noise starts as if the right front hub is trying to engage. I put it in 4WD and the noise stops. Only now I cannot take it out of 4WD because the problem seems worse now. I checked the transfer case and the electric motor sounds to be working OK. I thought that maybe the motor was weak or not fully disengaging the 4WD. But it only seems to be happening with the right hub. Axle shaft perhaps?? Any help is appreciated.

Mike

 

[Willard]

I have had this problem before, but it is always corrected by engaging 4x4, then disengaging it and backing up to disengage the hub.

Check out these links, they may help you correct it:

http://www.explorerforum.com/Singleton/web/pages/fourwd.html

http://www.explorerforum.com/Singleton/web/pages/autohubs.html

And If all else fails, you can always convert to manual hubs:

http://www.explorerforum.com/Singleton/web/pages/hubconv.html

 

[icymikeak]

I read the links that you provided (thank you btw). Helpful yes, but I have another question. In the second link the author (David Van Horn) stated that a auto hub bearing can become so bad that it will actually try to engage the hub on the other side. Is this really possible??? How???

Mike

 

[little x]

^^
I'm just guessing here, but, with an opened front diff:
If the left hub bearing gets so loose that it allows the hub to slip completely onto the axle and turn the axle, instead of just chattering. Then the left axle will be turning forward: with no input from the drive-shaft (the t-case is in 2wd) that means that the opened diff will transfer the power of the left axle spinning forwards into the right axle spinning backwards! And if the hub on the right side is working correctly it will attempt to engage (while the wheel is spinning forward and the axle backwards!!). Causing a huge amount of racket.

This may be complete bull-****, it's just me speculating, as I had never herd of that happening before.

 

[Glen4X4]

^^
I'm just guessing here, but, with an opened front diff:
If the left hub bearing gets so loose that it allows the hub to slip completely onto the axle and turn the axle, instead of just chattering. Then the left axle will be turning forward: with no input from the drive-shaft (the t-case is in 2wd) that means that the opened diff will transfer the power of the left axle spinning forwards into the right axle spinning backwards! And if the hub on the right side is working correctly it will attempt to engage (while the wheel is spinning forward and the axle backwards!!). Causing a huge amount of racket.

This may be complete bull-****, it's just me speculating, as I had never herd of that happening before.

You've really given this some thought haven't ya? lol. now I'm sitting here thinking, because your right it would cause the other side the spin in the opposite direction, but also heard the first gen autohubs don't engage while in reverse but I'm not sure on that (wouldn't make sense if they didn't)

 

[little x]

I did think about it for a min, lol.
No, they do lock in reverse. That's what makes auto hubs weaker then manuals:
If your hubs are locked and your in 4x4 moving forward, then stop and put it in reverse, the hubs will unlock, and then re-lock in reverse. So if your stuck and you try to rock yourself out by going forward, reverse, forward, reverse, your hubs are locking and unlocking over and over again under heavy load (which will cause them to break). That's how most auto hubs die, and why manuals are stronger.

Because of this, if you wanted to take your truck out of 4x4 and unlock the hubs, without driving in reverse for 15 feet, you could stop, drive 1 foot in reverse (while still in 4x4) (thus locking the hubs going backwards). Then take the vehicle out of 4x4 and drive away. The hubs will unlock in 15 feet of forward travel (instead of backwards) since the hubs were engaged in reverse, not drive. (Again, I'm not sure if this would work, but theoretically it should) (I have manuals, so I can't check and see)

 

[Glen4X4]

My one first gen. the auto hubs failed while my dad owned it so got manuals and my other first gen has manual hubs inplace of auto's so I never got to use auto hubs until I got my 2nd gen explorers, both 2nd gen explorer's I've had to rock out of a mud hole.

But onto his subject if the one hub is half engaging it could just be rubbing on the axle causing more damage to the hub.

 

[Willard]

^^
I'm just guessing here, but, with an opened front diff:
If the left hub bearing gets so loose that it allows the hub to slip completely onto the axle and turn the axle, instead of just chattering. Then the left axle will be turning forward: with no input from the drive-shaft (the t-case is in 2wd) that means that the opened diff will transfer the power of the left axle spinning forwards into the right axle spinning backwards! And if the hub on the right side is working correctly it will attempt to engage (while the wheel is spinning forward and the axle backwards!!). Causing a huge amount of racket.

This may be complete bull-****, it's just me speculating, as I had never herd of that happening before.

That's pretty much how that happens. The reverse torque happening on the other side causes it to try and engage backwards.

The hubs DO engage in reverse, however, when you go in reverse, they have to momentarily disengage then re-engage in the opposite direction. That's why you can't "rock" the truck in 4WD. It's hard on the hubs, and they make lots of bad noises

Ask me how I know

 

[icymikeak]

Thanks for the input gents. I have another hub that I will use on the left side and see if that fixes the problem. Now... one more question. If I want to clean the hubs (internally) without taking them apart before I install them is it safe to soak them in a solvent for a while, drain and dry, and then lube with gear oil or tranny fluid? I read in one section that soaking them may not be good for the bearing in the hub.

Mike

 

[Glen4X4]

Umm...hold on I just was reading a thread on cleaning them.

 

[Glen4X4]

Here check this thread out I just found it again, you could try this to see if it fixes your problem.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201782

 

[icymikeak]

a good cleaning never hurt I suppose. I'll soak them in tranny fluid after a good soaking with some solvent. I'll post the results later tonite or tomorrow. For now it's full-time four wheel drive.

Mike

 

[icymikeak]

Well, I cleaned both hub and made sure that all parts were in working order. However this did not fix my problem. I backed the car out of the garage and by the time I reached 10 mph the right hub was buzzing/ratcheting again. Could this be a transfer case issue? I am perplexed. Once the noise started I put it in 4WD and the noise stops after the t-case is engaged. HELP!!!

Mike

 

[Willard]

Sounds like either something is binding up causing the hubs to partially engage. I'm trying to think what else it could be, but I don't think bearing noise or anything to that effect can sound that way.

Pretty good chance it's not a transfer case issue, so that can be ruled out, at least for now.

What happens if you turn off 4WD and back up? Do they disengage all the way?

 

[icymikeak]

when I switch off the 4WD and back up the hubs do (the best I can tell) disengage. When I start forward the right hub sounds like it is trying to engage around 10mph. I hit the 4WD and the hubs engage but only after I slow down almost to a stop does the right side fully engage. Once they are engaged it drives well in 4WD. Could it be a problem in the differential??? Transfer case???

AAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Mike

 

[Glen4X4]

I'm still betting on the hubs.....

 

[icymikeak]

How? I replaced them both. What are the odds that I would replace them with hubs with exactly the same problems??? I took everything apart (hubs that is) and replaced everything that looked warn or broken. I'm still thinking differential or t-case. Could it be the t-case electric motor???

Mike

 

[Glen4X4]

If your convinced its the shift motor which is possible that its sorta in 2wd but not entirely, try putting it in 4hi and tap on the shift motor incase dirt got into the back of the case where the motor shifts it and is not allowing the shift motor to completely engage it back into 2wd then push the 4hi button to let it go back into 2wd and try that. Did you clean the hubs the way it was described in the thread?

 

[DeRocha]

Well, I cleaned both hub and made sure that all parts were in working order. However this did not fix my problem. I backed the car out of the garage and by the time I reached 10 mph the right hub was buzzing/ratcheting again. Could this be a transfer case issue? I am perplexed. Once the noise started I put it in 4WD and the noise stops after the t-case is engaged. HELP!!!

Mike

Its not your T-Case, its your hubs.. The buzzing and ratcheting noise is from the hubs trying to engage.. When you engaged 4x4 the T-case powers the front drive shaft which goes through the front differential to power the axles. Once the front axles begin rotating they force the hubs to lock (Which stopped the noise).. If the noise is still gone after you de-activate 4x4 (but keep hubs locked) the problem is with one or more hubs.

You didn't use a new autohub when replacing your old one. It would be fairly common for used autohubs to exhibit the same problem your currently having. I would clean autohubs as best you can. When mine were behaving the same way I soaked them with Paint Thinner for a few hours and kept rotating the inner splines to move stuff around. I'd drain the hubs over a bucket and repeat the paint thinner process until the fluid was fairly clean. I then drained the hubs for a few hours before soaking then in ATF for a little while.

 

[icymikeak]

Master DeRocha!!!

I humbly stand corrected. It was the hub. I had an old manual locking hub in my tool box and I thought I would try that before I messed around with the t-case motor. And yes... it worked. Now I need to find another manual hub and I'll have a matching pair. Thanks for putting up with my niavity! You, sir, were correct! thanks

Mike