98 5.0 xlt what degree do I set my timing?

[High Class White Trash]

I've set my timing twice. I installed a brand new harmonic balancer but when my mechanic friend set the timing and we cranked it over it started but was making a loud hissing noise, sounded like a tire losing air
We set it again about 12 14 degrees and now it makes a faint popping noise from the exhaust, idles super rough, but passing gear will throw you back into the seat. I also lost gas mileage. No hesitation while driving or going up hills
I went from about 230 250 miles to a tank to 185.
When I'm idling you can smell the exhaust fumes to the point it starts to burn your eyes which tells me I'm running rich.

Just bought a new High Energy Double Roller timing chain from Comp Cams that I'm installing in the next 24hr hopefully when my gaskets come in the mail.
I was just wonde

ring what degree I set it at.
I know I do TDC but what degree. I don't know too much about setting the timing and I don't think my mechanic does either..he is a Chevy fan that's probably why

Someone please help me!!!!
Before I fk it up

 

[crunchie_frog]

Hi friend, my apologies, I would like to help but how are you "setting" the timing? Timing is set by the PCM, so I guess you are doing a PCM tune or flash?

 

[High Class White Trash]

That's what I'm saying I've never did timing before.
I'm replacing the timing chain and all the gaskets but once I put the harmonic balancer in I don't know what to do...
Is there a certain way I should put the harmonic balancer in?
Once everything is put back together what do I need to look for?

 

[High Class White Trash]

I'm not tuning or flashing the pcm.
I'm not touching it.

 

[crunchie_frog]

Balancer only goes one way with woodruff key on crankshaft. So you have already replaced the timing chain? Make sure #1 is at TDC (remove spark plug to be sure) when you replace the chain and there is mark (dot) the upper cog/chain gear that lines up with the slot on the lower cog/chain gear.

If you have not replaced the timing chain, given the age of the vehicle, there is a reasonable chance of breaking off a water pump bolt and if you are not having any other issues (timing cover leak, bad water pump) I would not recommend doing the timing chain as it is likely not causing you any issues. I have replaced several of timing chains on the 5.0 when doing the timing cover gasket leak job and have never noticed any significant improvements in mpg, power though they all "seemed" to run a little smoother.

Anyway, I am still not sure exactly what you have done and have not done but there is only one position (of the 360 degrees) that the balancer can fit on the crankshaft.

 

[High Class White Trash]

I have 298k miles on it. I've replaced all the sensors, synchronizer, purge valve, valve stem seals, thermostat.
Haven't had to replace any pumps
You name it I've probably replaced it
I noticed this morning that I had some antifreeze on top of the timing cover next to the thermostat housing I believe.
Ever since I replaced my balancer the gas mileage dropped at least 4mpg
It bogs down shifting from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th. It's always bogged down ever since Ive owned it. Would love to get rid of that problem.

Any advice on what I can do let me know and I'll let you know if I've already done it or replaced it

 

[vroomzoomboom]

cam timing, strait up. that means the dot on the on the cam cog should point at 6 o'clock. the dot on the cog that goes on the crank should point to 12 o'clock so they both line up. when doing this, make sure you are at top dead center on number one cylinder which is the front cylinder on the passengers side. when you set your cam sycro (this is where normally a distributor would be) you will need a tool that comes with it. it looks like on of these

and will go into the syncro like this

that locks it in place while you are trying to install in. if that is off one tooth in the cam, the truck will not run correctly. also the tool has a arrow on the top of it. you ideally want it to point at six o'clock once its in the motor.
as for ignition timing, that you will not be able to set unless you have a programmer for the pcm.

 

[High Class White Trash]

Thank y'all
This has been driving me out of mind.
Don't have a programmer for the pcm. I'm guessing I have to order one online?

 

[vroomzoomboom]

you can email don lasota at lasotaracing.com. tell him what type of mods you have, and ask what you would all need for tuning.

 

[donalds]

you can email don lasota at lasotaracing.com. tell him what type of mods you have, and ask what you would all need for tuning.

Yes email him
Don't call there it will piss him off lol

 

[CDW6212R]

The bad gas mileage could be from several possibilities, but the timing being off might be a more likely thing if everything is already done or right.

Are the front O2 sensor relatively new? An old balancer could throw the timing off if it was failing, hopefully you used a good brand. Same for the cam synchronizer, that needs to be OEM Ford, the sensor itself can be off brand. That is a critical item, it needs to be installed with the proper tool, or else the timing could be way off and cause the issues mentioned.

The timing chain is easy to install, and the one pictured has one one way to put it in, it has no choices for advancing or retarding. Just find TDC by having the #1 spark plug out, have it there when you pull the timing cover etc, so the timing chain set is easy to R&R(turn the crank so the key way is dead straight up, then the timing chain and gears will go on lined up.)

Plan for plenty of time to do the water pump and timing cover. The WP bolts may very well break, spray them with Kroil beforehand. Be ready for it to take a couple of days if bolts break or the timing cover breaks when removing it. Then go slow cleaning it all very well, you don't want any new leak after it's done. Buy High Tack spray a gasket, that works well for the timing cover. I just did mine two weeks back. I covered the gasket around the coolant ports when I sprayed the High Tack on it, and spread Ultra Black RTV on those portions around the coolant ports. That's the precious part where it is prone to leaking, the rest is just crankcase seam and not under much pressure.

 

[High Class White Trash]

Yes email him
Don't call there it will piss him off lol

Ok thank you

 

[High Class White Trash]

The bad gas mileage could be from several possibilities, but the timing being off might be a more likely thing if everything is already done or right.

Are the front O2 sensor relatively new? An old balancer could throw the timing off if it was failing, hopefully you used a good brand. Same for the cam synchronizer, that needs to be OEM Ford, the sensor itself can be off brand. That is a critical item, it needs to be installed with the proper tool, or else the timing could be way off and cause the issues mentioned.

The timing chain is easy to install, and the one pictured has one one way to put it in, it has no choices for advancing or retarding. Just find TDC by having the #1 spark plug out, have it there when you pull the timing cover etc, so the timing chain set is easy to R&R(turn the crank so the key way is dead straight up, then the timing chain and gears will go on lined up.)

Plan for plenty of time to do the water pump and timing cover. The WP bolts may very well break, spray them with Kroil beforehand. Be ready for it to take a couple of days if bolts break or the timing cover breaks when removing it. Then go slow cleaning it all very well, you don't want any new leak after it's done. Buy High Tack spray a gasket, that works well for the timing cover. I just did mine two weeks back. I covered the gasket around the coolant ports when I sprayed the High Tack on it, and spread Ultra Black RTV on those portions around the coolant ports. That's the precious part where it is prone to leaking, the rest is just crankcase seam and not under much pressure.

Yalrigjt I'll be sure and do it in the order you mentioned. The sync was oem, the cam sensor was not. Should I replace the cam sensor with motorcraft?
Not a big deal, I just have to order it and wait for it to come in.
Yes I read up on the man hrs for the job and it says 4 to 6 if everything goes right.
But that doesn't happen in my world.
There is always something.
I'm thinking of holding off till next weekend bc I got alot to do this week and I don't want to be working on I in my sleep so to say.

 

[High Class White Trash]

The 02 sensors are not new but I've also cut off my back cats band hollowed out the fronts. So it's pretty loud. Kinda of ridiculously loud bc I got about 9 inches of pipe after the hollowed cats the there are 2 88522 cherry bomb glass packs.
I got flanges at the end by the back passenger door.
I welded up some exhaust extensions with flanges as well that way I can bolt it on when I'm working on it and listen for noises bc it quietens it down by 75percent

 

[CDW6212R]

The cam synch sensor is fine, those either work right or they don't, the synchronizer is the part that is poor from other brands.

If the O2 sensors haven't seen excessive rich running or other contamination etc, then they should be fine with low mileage. If they might have been hurt somehow, then they could be part of the problem. The exhaust behind those front O2's shouldn't affect the engine running, or fuel mileage.

 

[crunchie_frog]

no codes?

 

[High Class White Trash]

P1309...says my pcm disabled the misfire monitor bc it is running too rough..
It gives me this code Everytime I hook up the OBD2..
I think I need a new pcm

 

[crunchie_frog]

P1309...says my pcm disabled the misfire monitor bc it is running too rough..
It gives me this code Everytime I hook up the OBD2..
I think I need a new pcm

P1309 is related to with the camshaft position and syncrhonizer. See post #7 above.

 

[CDW6212R]

I agree, check the cam synchronizer again, verify it with the right tool.

 

[High Class White Trash]

cam timing, strait up. that means the dot on the on the cam cog should point at 6 o'clock. the dot on the cog that goes on the crank should point to 12 o'clock so they both line up. when doing this, make sure you are at top dead center on number one cylinder which is the front cylinder on the passengers side. when you set your cam sycro (this is where normally a distributor would be) you will need a tool that comes with it. it looks like on of these

View attachment 340552

and will go into the syncro like this

View attachment 340553

that locks it in place while you are trying to install in. if that is off one tooth in the cam, the truck will not run correctly. also the tool has a arrow on the top of it. you ideally want it to point at six o'clock once its in the motor.
as for ignition timing, that you will not be able to set unless you have a programmer for t