'98 brake line replacement | Page 2 | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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'98 brake line replacement

This is false. Brakes are a sealed system. It is impossible for a hydraulic system to function if not sealed.

This system does not need flushed every couple years. This Great Urban Myth has persisted for far too long.

At most you might have a leaking or negative pressure valve in your master cylinder reservoir, or some other brake component fault that lets air in (but if you do, your brake pressure is shot so this is a last day you brake before braking is lost, scenario), and over many years this adds a little bit of moisture.

That little bit of moisture, may cause brake pressure loss in extreme conditions that cause the small amount of water to boil, but because brake fluid is hygroscopic, it greatly retards the effects of rust because the tiny amount of water present is spread throughout the entire braking system instead of pooling in one area where it would do more harm.

Brake flushes are a waste of money. Do one when you replace a component and have reason to believe there is debris in the system as a result, or if you are racing and a little water under severe conditions will degrade the braking performance that was already marginal for the activity.

There is far too much evidence from the millions of vehicles on the road, that brake fluid does not need flushed except in extreme conditions. This also assumes that when it was added, it was a fresh container not one sitting half empty and open too long to absorb moisture before it was even put into the sealed braking system.

Over 20+ years of owning my Explorer, it has had no brake flushes, and no braking problems. Finally a year ago the rear axle line rusted from the outside, and leaked, and I put new lines on, and flushed it.

This is typical for every vehicle I've owned and worked on. I see no evidence at all that brake flushes are necessary for water retention except in extreme racing conditions. If we were talking about preserving a 50 year old classic car worth $50K, maybe then change the fluid just as a burden but not because it needed it.

Moister contamination in brake fluid (or any hydraulic fluid) is most certainly not NOT a myth. You are wrong. Moister gets into the system every time the cap on the master cylinder is opened. it also gets in by going right through the rubber hoses. As moister accumulates in the brake fluid the boiling temp of the fluid is lowered. This is felt in brake fade as the fluid boils at a lower temp. Also internal brake parts begin to rust. To eliminate this you can switch to silicon brake fluid, but this requires replacing all of the brake system components, because the silicon fluid is not compatible with regular brake fluid. I've restored/repaired many classic vehicles and what happens to the brake fluid over decades is quite disgusting. This is not only due to moister accumulation, but also to deterioration of rubber seals. It even seems to eventually crystallize if not maintained. After replacing all the brake system parts I use silicon brake fluid in my classic vehicles.

Like any fluid used in a vehicle brake fluid should be replaced periodically. Every 2-3 years (or 30,000 miles) is recommended. Running the same brake fluid in a vehicle for 20 years is not wise. You may get away with it, but your braking performance is compromised whether you realize it or not. Would you recommend not changing engine oil, trans fluid, gear oil or power steering fluid for 20 years?

Don't believe me? Do some research on the subject. Most manufactures (granted not all) recommend changing brake fluid every 2-3 years. Brake fluid is inexpensive and fairly easy to flush, as long as you don't get air in the ABS pump. Why not change it?
 



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Moister contamination in brake fluid (or any hydraulic fluid) is most certainly not NOT a myth. You are wrong.

I agree that it is possible for it to get in, many years of seepage through the rubber lines, resulting in a small percentage of water that does not need removed nearly as often as every couple years, except if as already mentioned, there is some racing or other severe duty (like driving down long steep mountain roads).

Moister gets into the system every time the cap on the master cylinder is opened. it also gets in by going right through the rubber hoses. As moister accumulates in the brake fluid the boiling temp of the fluid is lowered. This is felt in brake fade as the fluid boils at a lower temp.

Why would anyone open their master cylinder cap unless it's already leaking and needs refilled, so the leaking component is replaced and the fluid bled after that repair? I sometimes check the level on mine but I use a flashlight if I can't see the fluid level without one, not taking the cap off.

It is true the boiling point is lowered, but this has never been a problem for me. If boiling point was so important then why isn't everyone rushing out to replace their DOT 3 fluid with DOT 5.1?

Most people do not replace their fluid every two years and do not have a problem from this. If you do find your specific vehicle and use results in brake fade from boiling fluid, then of course you should replace the fluid, but in that case it might be the pads instead, or that both need replaced, and possibly the rotors are glazed over too and so they also need replaced or lathed (if thick enough to allow it).

Most people simply do not face conditions severe enough to need this. Ever since the introduction of ABS, the brake systems have been more turned to increase stopping power instead of tuned to a range of human modulation to reduce lockups.

Also internal brake parts begin to rust. To eliminate this you can switch to silicon brake fluid, but this requires replacing all of the brake system components, because the silicon fluid is not compatible with regular brake fluid. I've restored/repaired many classic vehicles and what happens to the brake fluid over decades is quite disgusting. This is not only due to moister accumulation, but also to deterioration of rubber seals. It even seems to eventually crystallize if not maintained. After replacing all the brake system parts I use silicon brake fluid in my classic vehicles.

Over decades is the other extreme compared to every 2 years, and yes the seals will break down and produce black muck in the fluid. A small % of water present or missing doesn't change that and once the seals are shot they'll need replaced whether the fluid was changed every 2 years or not.

Like any fluid used in a vehicle brake fluid should be replaced periodically. Every 2-3 years (or 30,000 miles) is recommended. Running the same brake fluid in a vehicle for 20 years is not wise. You may get away with it, but your braking performance is compromised whether you realize it or not. Would you recommend not changing engine oil, trans fluid, gear oil or power steering fluid for 20 years?

Depends on the goal of the owner. Some will retire or sell a vehicle by then if it wasn't sent to a junkyard first for being in an accident. The vehicle is of very little value at that point anyway so how much work over how many years is it worth to preserve something worth less than $2K after that many years?

Engine oil is a different case because of cylinder blow-by that contaminates it. Trans, gear, or steering fluids, again this is taking opposite extremes. It would be excessive for me to replace those every two years too, except the tranny fluid if it were certain Hondas/etc known to have weak transmissions that need that.

Don't believe me? Do some research on the subject. Most manufactures (granted not all) recommend changing brake fluid every 2-3 years. Brake fluid is inexpensive and fairly easy to flush, as long as you don't get air in the ABS pump. Why not change it?

It is easy for someone to say it is safer to replace it than not, based on some hypothetical worst case scenario, having never driven the vehicle nor knowing whether there has been any braking problems from moisture.

I don't recall too many topics on this forum where someone had a brake problem and all they needed to do was flush the fluid?

I don't recall my Explorer owner's manual specifying replacing the fluid every two years. It states to check the fluid level and top it off annually. I checked the Ford Maintenance Guide too, and it has no mention of changing the brake fluid, only to inspect the brake components at certain intervals.

Why not change it? Because it doesn't need changed that often. I'm not suggesting that it will never need changed, rather that most people will get minimal benefit doing so before a repair requires it.

What I do recall is that the myth about changing the fluid this often was largely started by people affiliated with quicklube places that make a pretty penny upselling $200+ worth of services to people who came in for a $25 oil change.

Yes the boiling point lowers with more moisture in it, but that does not automatically mean the boiling point is reduced to a dangerous level. If it were, you better believe that Ford would have put that in the owners manual because widespread brake failure resulting from lack of changing the fluid every couple years would be a recall situation.
 






Finally a year ago the rear axle line rusted from the outside, and leaked, and I put new lines on, and flushed it.

This happened to me a couple weeks ago. I haven't had $ or time to repair it, and while the brake pedal was spongy and traveled quite a bit, the front brakes still worked enough and I've been driving it like that, until today, when they went completely. I hadn't put any brake fluid in either, because it would just pour out the leak in the back.

So today I put more in, and it just still leaked out the back. I have no idea how my front brakes have still been working, or why they all the sudden quit working at all today. So now I need to replace the line above the rear axle, but I know from tinkering with it that I cannot get the line to disconnect from the tee fitting. Im thinking about just replacing the entire tee fitting. Yes I've PB blasted the hell out of it.

Does the line fitting just rotate counter-clockwise out of the tee? Also if I replace the whole tee, how do the rubber hoses get removed? And is it fairly simple? Installation? I'm pretty good with backyard do it yourself stuff..i cut an access hole and replaced my fuel pump myself amongst many other things.

I have a 95 Eddie Bauer 4 Dr

I'll snap a pic of the tee I'm talking about shortly. Thanks for any responses :)

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You need the rear housing brake line, It'd be best to find one from a southern truck. Check with Ford, but I doubt that will be available.

That "T" fitting is part of the left brake line. You can buy that from Ford and most parts stores. It will attach to the caliper, the frame brake line, and the rear housing line. You might get that apart with a strong Vise-grip pliers, but if not buy the left hose assembly too.

The reason the front brakes still worked is because the master cylinder separates the front from the rear, in case of a failure of either end. If you had kept fluid in the MC, the front brakes would likely have kept working.
 






Oh. So now that the front brakes aren't working, likely the MC is no good anymore? I filled the brake fluid reservoir after all brakes stopped working, and nothing happened except the brake pedal traveled all the way to the floor, and it squirted out all my fluid out the hole in the rear brake line. While the engine wasn't running or brake pedal depressed, the fluid just dripped out of the broken line.

Thanks for responding btw :)
 






^ You probably now have air in the front line, so after the rear is repaired you will need to bleed all 4 corners.

The rear line across the axle, in a pre-flared piece with the two nuts on it is only $7 at Autozone or $8 at Advance Auto Parts, as AGS Poly Armour Brake Line # PAX-351 3/16" x 51"

51" is slightly too short to make all the factory routed bends as far as they were from the factory, around the differential it bends a little less, but otherwise fits fine. Those auto parts places also sell the next longer length and it is too long and will need extra bends to take up that slack. Either will work, I just didn't see a need for the extra factory bends.

Yes the nut turns counter clockwise. Put some penetrant on it, let it sit for an hour and spray some more on, and try to hold the metal junction on the rubber hose still with vice-grip pliers to help prevent it breaking off its bracket.

If you think the junction and hose assembly is bad too, this is a good time to replace it, but you may face a similar situation to the back hard line, that the hard line coming to the junction from the front of the vehicle is rust-frozen on too, and that you may damage that front to rear line trying to get the junction off so now it leaks.

That was what I encountered and what made me decide to go ahead and replace the front to rear line, and junction-hose assembly too. If yours aren't as bad yet you could just replace the rear line but it probably won't be long till the rest need replaced, better to do it before another one leaks rather than after!

The rear axle hard line may be easier to get off the junction if you just cut the hard line right before the nut, then you can get a 6 point socket on it. However it is still handy to have a line wrench to put the new one on. The pre-made line mentioned above has perfect flares and will seal well without much torque on the line nut, so you should be able to get away with using pliers, but if you start making your own flares in bulk line, a good quality line wrench is Very Handy to apply more torque to the nut without deforming it like a conventional wrench or pliers might.
 






The MC running dry gets air in passages that are more difficult to displace than just pumping the brake a few times. The MC isn't hurt, but it might have to be removed to bench bleed it, to get the air out. I haven't changed a MC since about 1982, I don't know if it's too hard to do it installed. Look into that before taking it off, but you've got time while finding the rear housing line you need.
 






There is also going to be some air in the ABS module, didn't all 95+ Explorers have ABS standard?
 






Wow thank you! I want to replace that whole rear line, both left and right junctions and hoses, and also the entire front to rear line. I'll follow it back up towards the front, hopefully I can figure out where it originates from, remove it, and then install a new one. I might do the front ones too if im feeling froggy we'll see. Thanks again for the response...you guys are awesome :)

One last thing... how would I get air in the front lines all the sudden after driving it like it's been for weeks? I'm going to bleed like u said tho for sure.
 






The MC running dry gets air in passages that are more difficult to displace than just pumping the brake a few times. The MC isn't hurt, but it might have to be removed to bench bleed it, to get the air out. I haven't changed a MC since about 1982, I don't know if it's too hard to do it installed. Look into that before taking it off, but you've got time while finding the rear housing line you need.
Sorry didn't see your reply..

Ok I'll look into it and research for sure. I wont be doing any of this until tomorrow afternoon after work anyhow. Appreciate the help guys :)
 






There is also going to be some air in the ABS module, didn't all 95+ Explorers have ABS standard?
My understanding was that the ABS module won't get air in it unless the ABS activates while there is air in the line.

My MC reservoir completely emptied before the repairs, and I bled all 4 corners after the repairs, and took it out on an icy/snowy patch of road to get the ABS working several times, then bled all 4 corners again.

Seemed to do the job, my pedal isn't spongy and my ABS worked great the last time I almost ran over a deer, and the time before that... !@#$ deer are everywhere around here during fall.
 






I hope that's the case. I've avoided letting any air in the top end of the system of my Fords.

The 97 ABS module and MC I swapped into my 95 Crown Vic from other JY cars did fine except for having a soft pedal. I had no choice but to take the parts as they were and bolt the on. I had no trouble bleeding the MC(I forgot that until just now), but my worry was the cut/flared joints I made in the middle of the two main lines going to the rear(4 channel system). So I had no leaks and I was happy. I drove the car and bled the brakes again months later with new pads/rotors etc. It was okay but I had a 2nd 95 CV that I knew what the brakes should feel like. It took a long time to have them feel really firm, they just got better slowly over time. I bled the brakes every year or two for a few years. I didn't know of possibly finding one of those tools online, that was in about 2002. A couple years ago I then swapped 2002 CV front brakes onto it, rotors and calipers swap directly. It's cool to have time to learn of the swap possibilities, just rare to find it.
 






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