98 Explorer 5.0 AWD $650 repair Bill - Not a pulley - harmonic sound?

[CDW6212R]

Those prices are high depending on which tasks were easy and which might be a PITA, like the shocks or transmission line. The shock bolts could end up requiring a lot more time, due to rust etc. The trans line might be the easy one, or it could be the long one that doesn't really come out without bending it some. I'd bet for $75 they didn't replace any line, but maybe used some rubber hose(which is a horrible repair method(often blows off)).

The belt should take no longer than ten minutes for anyone with the right socket/wrench etc. That's the one that makes me avoid shops. The 302 Explorer has three basic idler pulleys, the top one and tensioner should be the same part. Those and the belt should be replaced at the same time, whenever something makes you pull the belt to check or replace something due to age. Those would run close to $100, the tensioner itself is about $55 from Ford as I recall(I bought two a couple years back).

I had done all of those pulleys and the belt last year on my "new" 98 Explorer. I just last month hunted a whining like from the PS pump, which ended up being the lower idler(ribbed). I swapped a good used one on, and the old one with maybe 20k miles on it, feels fine in hand. It likely would survive for years more, but the whine would make anyone replace it.

Pick your repairs and maintenance wisely, reading here from other's examples can help a lot. Do things which you suspect are really old parts that should expect to be problems before too long. Regards,

 

[koda2000]

There's no doubt about it, maintenance and preventative maintenance are the key to long vehicle life. Look at airplanes. With the maintenance planes receive they can basically last forever. The things that put most vehicles in the junk yard are rust, sun damaged/worn out interiors and lack of maintenance.

One thing to consider when putting a lot of money into a old vehicle is that if it gets wrecked insurance won't cover the money you've put into lovingly maintaining it.

 

[96eb96]

There's no doubt about it, maintenance and preventative maintenance are the key to long vehicle life. Look at airplanes. With the maintenance planes receive they can basically last forever. The things that put most vehicles in the junk yard are rust, sun damaged/worn out interiors and lack of maintenance.

One thing to consider when putting a lot of money into a old vehicle is that if it gets wrecked insurance won't cover the money you've put into lovingly maintaining it.

Good point. On the flip side though, replacing a reliable vehicle can cost more than you think. New is one thing, we all know that is expensive. Hard to believe my Explorer stickered for 36K in 1995 when it was sold. A loaded Ex is over 50K now. And a used car could have thousands in repairs (or hours of DIY and hundreds in parts ) to hopefully get it to a reliable state. No one really knows.

As for the DIY thing, everything has a cost. I probably have good 1000$ in tools to do my repairs, a place to work, and hours of time learning how to do repairs PROPERLY and reliably, watching videos, forums etc. Many DIYers mess things up and the bills are even higher, PROS screw things up, imagine amateurs. Just look at the thread here about the missing caliper bolts. Most DIYs won't look at torque specs, so they undertorque and end up with a hole in their wheel.

Maybe I could have been doing something else during that time, making money or whatever. Life is short, we aren't here forever. So paying someone to do it isn't the worst thing in the world, I'm more concerned with the repair done safely and correctly.

The shops charge money because a modern shop has enormous overhead. You may say $150 for a 30 min diagnostic to find a short or replace shocks isn't fair, but realize he is using a $12K scan tool with a $2k/yr subscription, $5k scope, a $1k literature subscriptions w/ wiring diagrams, torch gasses, and $50K of tools to choose from, the list goes on. He has to pay employees, insurance, taxes, even pay for his own training.

Not to mention his costs to buy and REPAIR lifts, tire changers, air compressors etc. My friend owns a shop here and he showed me some bills, he had a bad garage door and paid $2500 unexpectedly to get it working again. The place knew he had no choice at that point, need it fixed on the spot, so he probably got ripped off. He said he never repairs his own equipment, told me in the summer he paid a few grand to get his A/C machine working. A new one was almost twice the repair cost. So he said I need 20 A/C services to start making money with it again. And if someone needs an evaporator, of course they are getting charged the maximum flat rate for the job.

 

[koda2000]

Good point. On the flip side though, replacing a reliable vehicle can cost more than you think. New is one thing, we all know that is expensive. Hard to believe my Explorer stickered for 36K in 1995 when it was sold. A loaded Ex is over 50K now. And a used car could have thousands in repairs (or hours of DIY and hundreds in parts ) to hopefully get it to a reliable state. No one really knows.

As for the DIY thing, everything has a cost. I probably have good 1000$ in tools to do my repairs, a place to work, and hours of time learning how to do repairs PROPERLY and reliably, watching videos, forums etc. Many DIYers mess things up and the bills are even higher, PROS screw things up, imagine amateurs. Just look at the thread here about the missing caliper bolts. Most DIYs won't look at torque specs, so they undertorque and end up with a hole in their wheel.

Maybe I could have been doing something else during that time, making money or whatever. Life is short, we aren't here forever. So paying someone to do it isn't the worst thing in the world, I'm more concerned with the repair done safely and correctly.

The shops charge money because a modern shop has enormous overhead. You may say $150 for a 30 min diagnostic to find a short or replace shocks isn't fair, but realize he is using a $12K scan tool with a $2k/yr subscription, $5k scope, a $1k literature subscriptions w/ wiring diagrams, torch gasses, and $50K of tools to choose from, the list goes on. He has to pay employees, insurance, taxes, even pay for his own training.

Not to mention his costs to buy and REPAIR lifts, tire changers, air compressors etc. My friend owns a shop here and he showed me some bills, he had a bad garage door and paid $2500 unexpectedly to get it working again. The place knew he had no choice at that point, need it fixed on the spot, so he probably got ripped off. He said he never repairs his own equipment, told me in the summer he paid a few grand to get his A/C machine working. A new one was almost twice the repair cost. So he said I need 20 A/C services to start making money with it again. And if someone needs an evaporator, of course they are getting charged the maximum flat rate for the job.

The OP has stated he can't/doesn't want to do his own repairs. That's fine. I was just trying to play devil's advocate regarding what can happen when you invest thousands of dollars into an old vehicle and it gets totaled. I had a guy who worked for me who unwisely paid to replace the engine and transmission in a clapped-out mid 80's Chevy Malibu only to get rear ended a month later. He lost a lot of money, and that doesn't even include the other money he'd put into keeping that vehicle on the road. Afterwards I recommended he buy a clean, low mileage late model used Toyota Corolla (which he did).

With all the idiot distracted drivers on the roads today, getting into an accident is a real possibility and even if it's not your fault and the person that hit you has insurance it take surprising little for an insurance company to total a 15-20 year old vehicle.

 

[Mbrooks420]

You can also insure your vehicle at whatever value you wish. When I insured my bike it was 79 a year. For 99 a year it included a value of $2,000 for aftermarket accessories.

 

[koda2000]

You can also insure your vehicle at whatever value you wish. When I insured my bike it was 79 a year. For 99 a year it included a value of $2,000 for aftermarket accessories.

Sure, you can get agreed value insurance, but how many people are going to carry collision insurance on a 15-20 year year old vehicle?

 

[koda2000]

You can also insure your vehicle at whatever value you wish. When I insured my bike it was 79 a year. For 99 a year it included a value of $2,000 for aftermarket accessories.

Sure, you can get agreed value insurance, but how many people are going to carry collision insurance on a 15-20 year year old vehicle? Before I sold them I had my '37 Ford street rod insured for $35,000 and my '61 T-Bird convertible insured for $45,000.

Anyway, we're getting off topic and I think this horse has pretty well been beaten to death.

 

[Mbrooks420]

I carry collision on my Mounty. It’s 65 a month for $4,500. Great deal if you ask me.

 

[ELeBlanc]

Ok now the shop is telling me its the Air Compressor Pulley and the whole compressor needs to be replaced because the pulley does not separate on 97. So they didn;t even give me a price cuz at this point my answer is I'll wait for summer. It does make some noise but its not am embaressment going down the street. No additional charge for determing A/C pulley.

Car is back home with me.

 

[CDW6212R]

Ok now the shop is telling me its the Air Compressor Pulley and the whole compressor needs to be replaced because the pulley does not separate on 97. So they didn;t even give me a price cuz at this point my answer is I'll wait for summer. It does make some noise but its not am embaressment going down the street. No additional charge for determing A/C pulley.

Car is back home with me.

That's a useful diagnosis, that's a shop's most valuable use to a person. If it is just the AC clutch, that can be replaced without too much trouble, by anyone with decent tools(snap ring pliers and sockets etc). The AC clutch comes off of all compressors, that's another bad sign from that shop.

 

[J_C]

A compressor clutch bearing is only $17 on Rockauto, though I don't know how much trouble it is to press out. Then again you can get a whole aftermarket clutch for $48.

 

[CDW6212R]

A compressor clutch bearing is only $17 on Rockauto, though I don't know how much trouble it is to press out. Then again you can get a whole aftermarket clutch for $48.

That sounds about right. So if in no hurry, you can save by doing just the bearing, if you could get it done feasibly.

 

[Mbrooks420]

It’s not about being embarrassing. It’s about that bearing being in failure mode. When it fully fails, which it will, you will lose your belt, and all your accessories.

 

[J_C]

In case they weren't making it clear, if the bearing goes and the belt goes and the accessories stop spinning, you have a few minutes of driving before your battery is drained and you're stranded, or a few more till it overheated... and no power steering.

 

[koda2000]

In case they weren't making it clear, if the bearing goes and the belt goes and the accessories stop spinning, you have a few minutes of driving before your battery is drained and you're stranded, or a few more till it overheated... and no power steering.

Not to mention the possible collateral damage created by a the belt or the pulley flailing around under the hood. Might just fall to the ground or might take out your clutch fan, fan shroud, radiator and perhaps some wiring.

 

[ELeBlanc]

thank you for your quick response. I'm not sure I'm following, The person I talked to, who is not the primary mechanic, said the issue was the compressor pulley and to fix you need to replace the full compressor. Are compressor pulley and compressor cluth the same thing?

 

[96eb96]

Quick parts check says the same compressor was used for 20 years in various vehicles from Tempos to Rangers. The kit to repair fits almost any 90s, many 00s Ford on the road. About $64, Part on the right is an electromagnet. When the A/C is on it pulls the part on the left against the center pulley. That makes the compressor spin. When the A/C is off, the pulley spins freely.

 

[J_C]

thank you for your quick response. I'm not sure I'm following, The person I talked to, who is not the primary mechanic, said the issue was the compressor pulley and to fix you need to replace the full compressor. Are compressor pulley and compressor cluth the same thing?

So you probably talked to the service manager whose job it is to sell as much as possible!

 

[Mbrooks420]

The pulley is the part shown in the middle of the above picture. In the center of that is a bearing. This is most likely the part that has failed.

 

[96eb96]

They also usually fail for a reason. Worth checking out the entire A/C system, possibly a new compressor may be warranted, maybe not. Finding stuff like this separates the men from the boys.

http://www.rockauto.com/genImages/52/4S388REPLACINGCOMPRESSORASSEMBLYVSCLUTCH.PDF