'98 Mach sub/amp into '00 without premuim sound

[11lariat]

Hey guys,
I've been doing some researching and reading about this, but there were still a couple questions I was somewhat unsure of. I've got an '00 XLT that originally had the Pioneer dual media head unit & 4 door speakers. I have the cargo net in the rear, so no factory amp or subwoofer. I replaced the factory HU with a Pioneer DEH P3700MP, and now I'd like to get some fuller sound. I got a good deal on a used Mach enclosure, sub, and amp from a '98 EB. From what I've read, the '98 mach amp will only need power, audio from the HU preouts, and an amplifier power-on signal (regulated from 12v down to 5v) from the head unit (and of course a ground). I'm assuming I'll have to run the power cable from a switched power source to the rear of the truck, since there was no amp there to start with.

Any ideas where to tap from for the power? Can someone verify that the information regarding the amp on this Mach system is correct? (I know the JBL was a whole different animal) Forgive me for the newbie-ish questions..I've done plenty of head unit installs, but only one sub, and I wouldn't call that one 'neat'. I'd like for this to be clean and functional, nothing more.

Thanks!

 

[scucci]

The wiring diagram shows the sub amp power taps into the head unit power lead - light green/violet. It comes from fuse 29, 25 amp hot at all times to connector C239. If the speaker size on the sub woofer is 8", it is the correct one. 1997 down had the 6.5" JBL system.

Hope this helps
Scucci

 

[11lariat]

@scucci

Thanks for the wiring info - that makes things a bit easier

It is the 8" sub - pictured here. I'll also have about 6" of wiring from the factory harness when it gets here.

Does everything else I posted look right to you?

Thanks again,
Mike

 

[scucci]

Everything looks ok to me. If you need a wiring diagram there are a couple of threads on the forum with them. I have it in pdf format. The factory sub amp uses differential input - separate plus and minus inputs, not plus and ground like standard RCA plugs. Going from rca outs to differential input works, but cuts the signal level in half. The head unit sub level output needs to be set as high as possible to compensate. The 12 volt remote turn on (labeled mute by ford) can be dropped to 5 volt by a simple two resistor voltage divider.

Scucci

 

[CDW6212R]

How much of those sub wiring harnesses are separate harnesses Roy? I know that the one to the sub plugs into the dash harness at the right kick panel. You can buy that and deal with the section from the radio to the kick panel.

Isn't the only difference from the MACH the few wires going to the sub harness? Is there an adapter that can be used or cannibalized to make those wires a plug in? Remember that my truck wasn't a MACH vehicle, and I have the $60 adapter that someone installed along with the HU, sub, and changer. Surely the Premium vehicle wiring is so close that a minor harness can provide the sub harness connections.

 

[scucci]

Don, I don't know if the front harness might be all there on non mach equipped vehicles. I know the rear harness is not installed on non-Mach systems. The factory manual shows the sub harness connecting at the passenger side kick panel, and the connector appears to be part of all vehicles. Motorcraft WPT-296 (14 pin connector)seems to be the pigtail that would be used to make the harness. Motorcraft.com has a pigtail buyers guide and pigtail illustration guide in pdf. Sorry I can't be more specific. The factory wiring diagrams on the CD are not very good. I think the C-239 connector on the premium sound system is the same as the Mach, but some of the wires for the sub woofer are not used and the pins are empty if the Mach is not installed. If I were to make a harness I would start with the Motorcraft illustrations guide, it has virtually all of the connectors used by Ford. Rock Auto sells the Motorcraft connectors. Once I had them I would make the harness using commonly available wire, solder and heat shrink tubing. I asked Ford parts if any of the harness's are available and they said no. They priced the sub woofer harness at $750 if a dealer had it in old stock.
download file 1 and file 2 from here:
http://www.motorcraft.com/products.do?item=23

Roy

 

[CDW6212R]

Very good, the connectors are the big parts, you can make up the wires, even by using spare OEM wiring, which I have. If they want $750 for that one tiny harness for the sub I'd laugh at them. I should have that somewhere as a spare part, I didn't install it in my 99 Limited. I left out the sub wiring and put in a Kenwood HU that I had.

 

[scucci]

Yeah. Even the parts guy got a laugh out of that price. No wonder Ford does'nt need government money.

Scucci

 

[CDW6212R]

Ford has been carrying a whole lot more parts that I have asked about for older vehicles lately. I give them credit for having more to choose from. Certain items like wiring isn't worth asking about due to the prices, unless you have to have it from Ford.

 

[11lariat]

Everything looks ok to me. If you need a wiring diagram there are a couple of threads on the forum with them. I have it in pdf format.

Thanks, I'll take a look around for it

The factory sub amp uses differential input - separate plus and minus inputs, not plus and ground like standard RCA plugs. Going from rca outs to differential input works, but cuts the signal level in half. The head unit sub level output needs to be set as high as possible to compensate.

Could I combine the preouts down to a single RCA in the rear of the truck before the amp and then split it into pos and neg there? I'm not sure if my HU has preout adjustments or not, I'll have to look at that tonight.

The 12 volt remote turn on (labeled mute by ford) can be dropped to 5 volt by a simple two resistor voltage divider.

Scucci

I was planning to use a 7805 voltage regulator (a la http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062599) to drop the voltage down.

 

[CDW6212R]

I'm sorry for going on at length about the factory wiring, I thought that I read that you bought the MACH radio also. I think Roy answered the question very well, you should have it soon.

 

[11lariat]

Don, no worries about the factory wiring. I should have been a bit clearer in my thread title. Hopefully the info you posted helps someone in the future trying to do exactly that - there's lots of good information there.

 

[scucci]

The 7805 regulator will work fine.
I just looked at the manuals for the head unit you have. It does not have sub woofer line level outputs. Just full range outputs. I would not combine two preamp output channels with a y adapter without contacting Pioneer first. The Ford sub amp is expecting a signal of 250 hz or less from the head unit. So you would need an external crossover. You could replace the Ford sub woofer amp with a 100 watt aftermarket amp that has a built in crossover and sub woofer output connections.

Hope this helps
Scucci

 

[11lariat]

The 7805 regulator will work fine.
I just looked at the manuals for the head unit you have. It does not have sub woofer line level outputs. Just full range outputs. I would not combine two preamp output channels with a y adapter without contacting Pioneer first. The Ford sub amp is expecting a signal of 250 hz or less from the head unit. So you would need an external crossover. You could replace the Ford sub woofer amp with a 100 watt aftermarket amp that has a built in crossover and sub woofer output connections.

Hope this helps
Scucci

Would something along these lines be what I'm looking for? I'm trying to do this on the cheap so I'd rather not buy an amp if I can avoid it.

 

[scucci]

The scosche appears to be a power filter. These are crossovers:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_i60_crossovers.html

If the Pioneer head unit is brand new you could take it back and get one with sub woofer output.

When there is no sub woofer output on the head unit it becomes a complex problem to run the factory sub woofer amp.

Scucci

 

[11lariat]

The scosche appears to be a power filter. These are crossovers:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_i60_crossovers.html

If the Pioneer head unit is brand new you could take it back and get one with sub woofer output.

When there is no sub woofer output on the head unit it becomes a complex problem to run the factory sub woofer amp.

Scucci

Unfortunately, the HU is almost 5 years old now..this is the 3rd explorer it's been in. Maybe I can find a used amp for cheap around here, I'll have to look around.

 

[scucci]

I wish I could help you. I found an MTX Amplified Thunderform last year on Ebay for $80 and after a few repairs I had a great set up. It has low level and high level inputs for left and right channels and a 200w amp, 10" sub speaker and is made to fit in an explorer in the stock location. I waited over a year before that find. I wasn't about to spend $550 on a new one. That's why I had to research the stock head and sub amp electronics.

Good Luck
Scucci

 

[11lariat]

Wow, $80 for one of those is a steal, I've been keeping an eye out for them and the JL enclosures for over a year too, nothing that good of a deal though. I think I'll just suck it up and pick up a used or cheap amp to make this work, that way when I upgrade (blow) the sub later it'll be able to drive something a bit nicer. Thanks for all your help, I seriously appreciate it man!

 

[scucci]

You're welcome 94XLT4X4.

Scucci

 

[CDW6212R]

Also try to keep an eye out for the Stealthbox, which is a 10" unit with little room for an amp. They turn up once in a while for under $150, usually on this site.