98 SOHC running hot, looking for upgraded radiator advice

[donalds]

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I’d change it. If you were at 250k, I’d say **** it and leave it.

The logic behind not changing it is that the trans is so worn that friction material floating in the fluid allows the frictions to keep from slipping. Your transmission shouldn’t be nearly that far gone at 100k.

A change in the 5R55E is never a true full change anyway. Some old always ends up mixed in with the new.

I’d drop the pan, change the filter, clean the magnet. Make sure you’ve got a good quality gasket. Install a drain plug if you’re so inclined. Pull the aux cooler and bring it to a shop to have it hot tanked and pressure tested. Reinstall everything. Install new hoses to the cooler. Now add fresh fluid to offset what you lost. Now use the cooling hose method that can be found on here to change the fluid. Some guys will only do another 7-8 quarts via this method after doing a pan drop. Others will do a full 12-13 for good measure. Yet others just go until then fluid coming out is clear and cherry red. Your call, but anything is better than nothing.

I use a hand pump to pump out a gal and replace it every year with motorcraft fluid only
I also change my magnifine inline filter every two years

 

[Mitchs07explorer]

Looks like everyone concurs about the lack of fan shroud as well as blockage from the winch causing you lack of flow and the overheat issues. I don’t know if this would help you or not but there is a conversion to an electric fan that mounts on your radiator this might be a good solution for you if you don’t want to take the winch and Bull bar off. This was done to a 5.0 but I don’t know why it wouldn’t work for the 4.0.

 

[BenDT]

The shroud is critical. I believe you can also upgrade to the v8 fan. Metal and more blades but maybe I’m incorrect with that. Something I noticed the more I blocked my radiator wasn’t that it had negative cooling effects but that it would get extremely dirty and not get cleaned well on its own. I get up under my bumpers and spray my radiators all the time. Mud from wheeling, sand, and just nastiness pours out of there and I do that every couple months. If the fins are clogged you are not doing much

 

[Justin_]

The shroud is critical. I believe you can also upgrade to the v8 fan. Metal and more blades but maybe I’m incorrect with that. Something I noticed the more I blocked my radiator wasn’t that it had negative cooling effects but that it would get extremely dirty and not get cleaned well on its own. I get up under my bumpers and spray my radiators all the time. Mud from wheeling, sand, and just nastiness pours out of there and I do that every couple months. If the fins are clogged you are not doing much

Interesting, is the V8 fan a direct drop in replacement?

I know there are some old 5.0s at a local junkyard I could pull fans off of for cheap. Not to mention my engine still has the original plastic fan that is cracked and probably should be replaced anyway.

 

[fireftr]

Hey guys, im back to working on my 98 SOHC w/auto trans again.

This time im looking to address heat.

Recently I took a 2000 mile trip down to Las Vegas to attend a cyber security conference and had a great trip. The truck ran well with one exception, it got HOT.

For a better part of the trip between Salt Lake City and Las Vegas I had to keep an eye on the thermostat gauge to make sure I was not overheating. Most of that part of the trip I ran between 'Above normal' and 'Uncomfortably hot.' I did manage to keep the gauge below vertical the whole time, but had to slow down quite a bit at times. I wouldn't blame the engine as the ambient air temp was as high as 118F, the AC was all the way up, and the highway was going 80 on hills, but I would like to minimise this.

I have also noticed this once closer to home when I had the cruise control set at 90/95 and it charged right up a steep hill at full tilt. Im sure my 4.10 gears are not helping me here.

In the last year or so I replaced the thermostat+ring, rad cap, and coolant. When I replaced the coolant it was just because I had to pull the rad during the body swap. The coolant was super clean when I drained it so I don't think there is much/any buildup in the engine.

This has lead me to looking at new/upgraded rads. I don't have much experience here (Well, there has yet to be a car thing that I have had experience on when jumping into it ) but it looks like I should try to grab an all aluminium rad with 2+ cores. I do know that there is an aftermarket trans cooler installed so I don't need to worry about trans line compatibility.

Should I just go for an all aluminium 4.0 rad, or is there any advantage in using a 5.0 rad?
Is there anywhere that sells a trans-less rad, or is that even something I would get better performance out of?
Is the stock rad copper/brass? Will I get better performance out of a typical aluminium radiator with plastic tanks, or should I just go full aluminium?

I see that Radiator Express has an all aluminium rad. It's a bit expensive at $230+$25 shipping. Im not against spending the cash, just looking at comparing my options before I do.

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A few other things to note, I do not have a fan shroud. There was never one on the truck from when I got it, and it has a 3" BL so I don't know if one would fit. Also I have a winch blocking part of the rad for what that's worth.

Please do let me know if I am looking in the right direction.

View attachment 341552

What are you revving at, doing 90 with 4.10’s?
Sounds like you’re pushing the engine, especially with the 100+ temps.

 

[sandsprayer]

Add a bottle of Water Weter or similar additive

+1

 

[Justin_]

What are you revving at, doing 90 with 4.10’s?
Sounds like you’re pushing the engine, especially with the 100+ temps.

Oh yeah, definitely. I'm not denying that. I'm just wondering if there's a way to get the engine to run more optimally in suboptimal conditions.

 

[C420sailor]

Don’t waste your time with the fan. I have a 5.0 and a 4.0 and while the fans are not exactly interchangeable due to different fan clutches and such...they’re essentially the same. Both of mine are plastic and no noticeable difference in size. Not worth it.

 

[BenDT]

Don’t waste your time with the fan. I have a 5.0 and a 4.0 and while the fans are not exactly interchangeable due to different fan clutches and such...they’re essentially the same. Both of mine are plastic and no noticeable difference in size. Not worth it

Don’t waste your time with the fan. I have a 5.0 and a 4.0 and while the fans are not exactly interchangeable due to different fan clutches and such...they’re essentially the same. Both of mine are plastic and no noticeable difference in size. Not worth it.

Count the fins. I may totally be wrong. I believe the v8 will have two more. I could be thinking jeep world and applying it here but the 4.0 jeep for sure has the upgrade from the v8, done it. Also there is a metal one that must have been an option with towing or something for the v8, I had to remove my friends when he was parting out his 4 door he flipped. It is also available aftermarket if you do a quick search. I thought both fans also had only 4 bolt holes? Also as long as the pump shaft is same size the threads should be standard for that size if the clutch needs to be changed, however I doubt it being thermally regulated. I believe many brands are interchangeable for that reason. Either way, fan with more blades. Bigger blades. Then curved s shape blades move more air in that order. New e fans are multi blade fans with a slight twist, makes the air flow almost 2 fold from a traditional blade with same speed and blade count.

 

[C420sailor]

I think it does have more blades, but same diameter...I personally don’t think it will make any appreciable difference. Spend time and money elsewhere.

At least in my case, the fan clutch bolt patterns were definitely different. You could not mount the 6 fan on the 8 clutch and vice versa, but both clutches would spin on either engine.

If it were me, priority one (okay, maybe two, behind the shroud) would be removing that huge plate on the push bumper, but I’m a function over form guy.

 

[CDW6212R]

The bottom shroud that most people remove is huge, it goes below the frame and stops the air from going under the radiator. I have that out of mine too, but I have nothing blocking my grille either.

That one is held on by four 10mm self tapping bolts in the frame. It's very tall, almost a foot tall. It also may be possible to shorten it or section it to fit above various skid plates which people install down there. That diverter piece is tough plastic and I bet can be used no matter what alterations are done to an off road truck.

I would start with that piece and the side parts. Those together create an area in front of the radiator that forces air to go through the radiator. So for that less air getting through the grill due to a bumper etc, it is vital to force it through the radiator, and not around it.

 

[RickOTR]

Here is the elecric fan I used off a 2003 Crown Victoria Police Interceptor for my X. Works great.

 

[BenDT]

I think it does have more blades, but same diameter...I personally don’t think it will make any appreciable difference. Spend time and money elsewhere.

At least in my case, the fan clutch bolt patterns were definitely different. You could not mount the 6 fan on the 8 clutch and vice versa, but both clutches would spin on either engine.

If it were me, priority one (okay, maybe two, behind the shroud) would be removing that huge plate on the push bumper, but I’m a function over form guy.

I do agree fully with your order of operations. Just figured it would be an “upgrade”. I agree these systems are top notch. Like I said. Cleaning it is super super important.

Here is the elecric fan I used off a 2003 Crown Victoria Police Interceptor for my X. Works great.

View attachment 341607

And I bet that fan have twice the cfm of clutch fan. Better mpg, more freed up horses. Great option. Better for water fording too. Don’t want that fan snapping or bending into the belt. Been there with a bent fan before, didn’t get the belt but ate the water pump up in like a week. Older Jeep’s had two. Clutch fan was for towing package only and namely for the reliability over the e-fan. That stopped mid 2000s and went straight Efan. Clutch fans are antiquated. Great upgrade in many regards.

 

[BenDT]

The bottom shroud that most people remove is huge, it goes below the frame and stops the air from going under the radiator. I have that out of mine too, but I have nothing blocking my grille either.

That one is held on by four 10mm self tapping bolts in the frame. It's very tall, almost a foot tall. It also may be possible to shorten it or section it to fit above various skid plates which people install down there. That diverter piece is tough plastic and I bet can be used no matter what alterations are done to an off road truck.

I would start with that piece and the side parts. Those together create an area in front of the radiator that forces air to go through the radiator. So for that less air getting through the grill due to a bumper etc, it is vital to force it through the radiator, and not around it.

Using a clutch fan without a shroud is like using a blowgun without the gun.

 

[CDW6212R]

It's a combination of parts. If you skip or ignore the air going into the grille, or the controlling devices in front of or along side the radiator, then again the shroud and fan won't be enough. Having all three groups as problems, they all should be addressed if possible.

The bumper and guards are part of the vehicle features. The fan shroud and clutch etc, plus the air deflectors that force the air into the radiator, those all need to be there, and working properly. Do not ignore any of them and assume the one thing you like to harp on, will be the sole answer.

The Corral forum has countless threads to look at about engine overheating. Those are all Mustangs with tiny grille openings, smaller radiators, and more engine heat typically. Most of those problem threads there, and up being about the altered airflow management, someone removed the air control pieces that were around the radiator. Those threads are endless, they speak constantly about radiators, fan, thermostats, the clutch, antifreeze concentrations, outside temps, and electric fan models or controllers. Most of those problem cars end up fixed by restoring the OEM components that control the airflow through and behind the radiator.

 

[fast_dave]

Just sayin'

In 16 years of ownership, I never had an inkling of an overheating issue in Dry Heat PRK with the stock OHV cooling system system.

Then again, I had a radiator shroud (on the stock 1 Row radiator), properly working fan clutch, regular cooling system maintenance, no 300 LB obstruction in front of the grill, stock 3.23 gears in the diff, and ran stock size tires (235/75/15 Bridgestone REVO - LT Weight Rated) at 40 PSI.

Made numerous long distance highway trips to So. Oregon and So-PRK at 80 MPH (to keep up with traffic) with the cruise control activated and the a/c on, and if memory serves me correctly the engine was turning about 2,700 - 2,800 RPM and returning 17mpg on Regular 87 Octane.

Stock & Maintained, these OHV vehicles will perform.

Ask them to go outside of their design parameters, well, you get the picture

Just sayin'

 

[CDW6212R]

The 1st and especially the 2nd gen Explorers have wonderful cooling systems. The radiator is huge in the 95-01's, so big that they made them half thickness during the 1998 models.

My 99 Limited 4WD with 4.10 gears was great in 100* heat while driving over 60 miles at under 15mph average(lots of high throttle from 0-40mph and hard braking). I had a Scangauge that I used constantly for over two years in that truck. I loved seeing the temps steady in the 182-189* range, rarely maybe once a day it would oddly spike to 195-200. The Scangauge recorded the daily high temp and most of the time that was under 195 every day. So a 180* thermostat is a known combination for me, I had a DCC controller maintaining the fan to hold temps in the 180's.


I look forward to having time to experiment with an oil cooler thermostatic adapter I bought to handle ATF. The thing is made with a thermostat "pill" inside of it to control the open/close limit, which stock is over 180* for engine oil. The unit has a threaded cap on one side that holds the "pill" inside, but the head of it is so thin I couldn't hold it with any tool I own. If I can R&R that cap or plug, and change the pill to a marine thermostat pill, then I can run the AFT coolers and keep temps nearer to 150*. The marine thermostat I bought is rated at 145*, I think any trans would be happy to see ATF temps that low. I'd like to get coolant temps under 170*, have the ATF near 150*, and work on the oil temps last. All fluids heat up from all of the surrounding parts, lowering them is helped by dealing with the others. How well does an OEM oil cooler work if the coolant temps are over 200 degrees?

 

[fastpakr]

Here is the elecric fan I used off a 2003 Crown Victoria Police Interceptor for my X. Works great.

View attachment 341607

What are the dimensions of that compared to the Ex radiator?

 

[CDW6212R]

What are the dimensions of that compared to the Ex radiator?

The motor of that fan is going to be very deep, it is doubtful that it can clear the WP shaft of a SBF V8. There are very few OEM fans that can fit in front of the 2nd gen V8 Explorers. I would like that Crown Vic fan because it pulls a bunch of air, and I think it matches the radiator size well.

The Contour fans seem to be the best fitting OEM choice for your 302. I have an aftermarket Flex-a-lite model 190 I have yet to install, but others have put it on their 302 trucks. I don't see the one I have on Summit now, but the 183 and 188 are there, as well as an interesting dual fan 28" long model; Flex-a-lite 104242 Flex-A-Lite Direct Fit Electric Fans | Summit Racing

How tall is the radiator, that dual fan is almost a 1/4" thinner, and the WP shaft can clear much easier with a dual fan?

 

[Mr. Alligator]

All of this good advice and wisdom, but I have to say ….

These trucks are NOT made to be driven safely at 90/95 mph.

Drive safe. Just saying.