Abnormal noise from suspension

[JohnelP]

Hi,
I have an abnormal sound when the car is moving. It is like a heartbeat. Like a very fast heartbeat. It is not coming coming from engine. Put in neutral while driving, and noise is unchanged. No noise when stopped.
There is no vibration.

Hard to describe what it is, but I can say what is not.
It is not the humming noise specific to wheel bearings. It is not the clunking noise specific to control arms, nor the tie rod bush fail sound when turning; noise is there when driving straight.

In my older cars, a similar noise was combined with vibration, and the culprit was CV axle. A bent CV axle on one car, and damaged cage on cv axle on another car, but that was noisy + some vibrations mostly on turns.

Suspended front wheels and spun the wheels. Did not hear any strange noise, but i admit I rotated them by hand; admit I could not spin them fast.
CV axle inner and outer boots were OK. No leaks. Spun the wheels few times to see if the CV axles were bent, and as far as I could see, there were not bent, but it was hard for me to gauge the axle was not bend visually. The passenger side middle anchor bearing holding the mid point of cv axle did not have any play when i pushed it up/down-left/right. CV axles where tight when i pushed on them.

Also, when braking, there is no pulsating noise or vibration, so i would refrain from blaming warped rotors.

Grabbed the wheels at 3 and 9 o'clock positions and there was no play. Same, the 6 and 12 o'clock wiggle did not have any play, with both front wheels suspended.

Any ideas?

 

[peterk9]

Have you checked to see if there is anything stuck in the tire treads?

Peter

 

[JohnelP]

Been today to do the tire rotation and mentioned the noise to the mechanics. Before that, needed to mention the noise became less of a clear heartbeat ;
Performed few days ago the steering test myself- I could find a section of a road with asphalt, not the standard concrete blocks everywhere here in Dallas... - and I could hear the noise getting louder when steering both left and right. So I got mentally prepared for the wheel bearings.

I had 3 mechanics looking at the noise today. They were nice to allow me to stay with them. Each had its own opinion and could not point precisely the faulty one.. First was a fresh hire, so he asked a more experienced mechanic. He (the 2nd) drove the car, and he thought it is the driver side wheel bearing, due to the steering test. He felt more noise when turning right. Asked him if the heartbeat noise is specific to wheel bearings, and he mentioned the noise depends on how the bearing is getting destroyed : if many balls get slightly damaged, then the noise is more uniform. If there is one or two balls in the bearing more damaged, then the heartbeat noise is more likely. So, next step was to identify the troublemaker.
On the lift they did the standard tests: rotated the wheels by hand to listen for noises, but all sounded the same. The up/down left/right shake test of the wheel gave nothing on all wheels, as all wheels were firm as a rock. They had to start the car and have all wheels spinning while the car was lifted off the ground. The expected noise was elusive again. The third mechanic did something that was new to me. While the wheels were spinning (engine started) he tried to feel vibrations in the coil/spring of the strut while wheel was spinning fast. He said he felt more vibrations in the spring of the passenger side. I tried to feel the vibrations too, but I could hardly feel the difference between passenger and driver side.
Asked them if they can check the rear wheel bearings, but they did not have any more magic checks, so they said to try the front first and see if that fixes the problem. Was hoping a bit more precision, but I think they did their best, so I was OK.

Got a wheel hub from Ford dealer (what a story........ took them one hour to confirm the right part; they were ready to sell me the rear assembly for the front - both knuckle and hub; sad, but at least they apologized and gave me the hub at factory price). Original mechanics refuse to install a part that is not sourced by them, even if it a dealer part... and the dealer, well, don't get me started...

I am thinking to try it myself. What worries me are the horror stories of removing the hub from the knuckle. Like this one....

 

[SouthernExploder]

I was about to start a similar thread. Starting hearing a lot of "tire noise" and it would change with speed - very loud at 38mph, couldn't hear it at 40mph, very loud at 42mph. Thought I had a bad tire. Turns out I had a bad hub/bearing AND the bushings in the LCA had gone bad. Ended up having to change the hub/bearing and LCA on both sides. Fixed my problem.

 

[JohnelP]

I was about to start a similar thread. Starting hearing a lot of "tire noise" and it would change with speed - very loud at 38mph, couldn't hear it at 40mph, very loud at 42mph. Thought I had a bad tire. Turns out I had a bad hub/bearing AND the bushings in the LCA had gone bad. Ended up having to change the hub/bearing and LCA on both sides. Fixed my problem.

Was it front or rear? Really both bearings/hubs on both sides were bad? Did you do it yourself?

 

[SouthernExploder]

It was the fronts. They suggested replacing both sides and I agreed. Most likely the other side was going bad too. Better to do it in pairs IMO. But the bushings on both LCAs were bad. I've done all my own work on our Jeep Grand Cherokee including new bearings and upper & lower control arms. I didn't do it on the Ford myself because I was worried that the hubs would be hard to get out of the knuckles. I was right. Took his tech most of the morning and they said the bearings were seized on the shafts as well and were in bad shape.

 

[Stynx]

It was the fronts. They suggested replacing both sides and I agreed. Most likely the other side was going bad too. Better to do it in pairs IMO. But the bushings on both LCAs were bad. I've done all my own work on our Jeep Grand Cherokee including new bearings and upper & lower control arms. I didn't do it on the Ford myself because I was worried that the hubs would be hard to get out of the knuckles. I was right. Took his tech most of the morning and they said the bearings were seized on the shafts as well and were in bad shape.

They gall because it's steel on aluminum. I want to do mine but am scared it will be like the video.

 

[JohnelP]

Changed the front passenger wheel bearing yesterday. I wanted to make sure which bearing was faulty (mechanics were guessing when i had my car with them). Suspended the car, run it with wheels free spinning and it was clear the front passenger side. Was able to get the hub from the dealer few months ago with 70$, and after arguing with shops to install my own purchased dealer part, I gave up and tried myself. It took a few good hammer hits, some chisels and penetrating oils, but it came finally out.
Now the surprising + questions part:
* it was a challenge to find reasonable positions to get straight the 18mm socket with the torque wrench on the wheel hub to steering knuckle 4 bolts. Had universal joints when removing (so no much effort). but when i need to torque them and needed a straight line, it was a hassle. CV axle was always restricting the good socket placement (had to push cv axle as back as possible). Let's say the front upper and lower hub bolts were rather OK, but the top one in the rear was a challenge. a3/8 extension was twisting under the 120 ftlb torque. Had to get a long 1/2 extension extending over the frame close to the transmission with a series of 1/2 to 3/8 and 3/8 to 1/2 adapters to get it the right length i can get to torque wrench straight
Is there a smart alternative? AS i do not see people showing tips or tricks on this as if everything is simple. in my case, for each bolt i had to use a different set of extension and adapter combinations, that finally worked, but was not that obvious

** second, when pushing back the caliper pistons - the regular path: a c-clamp pushing the old brake pad to press the pistons in - the rubber boot was not pushed in too. When pistons were fully pushed, the rubber boot was extending out about 1/8" from the piston head. Should I have push with a screwdriver or something, the rubber boot in the channels? it look so soft, i was afraid to use a screwdriver to push that rubber..

***) when purchasing the brake pads, the dealer told me i can use either regular duty or heavy duty for brake pads. is that the case? other dealers say i must use heavy duty as called by vin. Never mentioned i can use regular duty. I thought heavy duty should be bigger /wider, and a standard duty will not fit. last dealer told me i can use both as i wish. is it?

 

[peterk9]

I think if the VIN indicates HD brakes then that is what you should go with. Ford changed the brakes from standard to HD midway through the 2013 production run. I believe it was sometime in December of 2012 but not that sure.

Peter

 

[JohnelP]

on second point with rubber boot not retracting all the way.. I wish I had seen his video.

I did not take the air out as this video recommended..

Felt something was not right, so I took my caliper apart, and, as expected, I tore the rubber boots on both pistons .... :-(

 

[DelcoGary]

Can I ask what kind of miles are on your Explorer when you changed the bearings (and/or LCA)?

 

[JohnelP]

Can I ask what kind of miles are on your Explorer when you changed the bearings (and/or LCA)?

My car has 145k miles. Not sure what LCA is though

 

[JohnelP]

Also I think i found a way to my first point.... that i should have used for those 4 bolts on hub to steering knuckle.. crowfoot wrench... too late now, but good to know for the future

 

[DelcoGary]

Not sure what LCA is though

LCA is lower control arm. From what I gather, the bushings can't be easily replaced in them so it's easier to replace the whole arm than press out the bushing. Others can chime in and correct me if I am off base.

Worn/degraded LCA bushings have also been identified as a source of suspension noises from what I have read.

 

[JohnelP]

LCA is lower control arm. From what I gather, the bushings can't be easily replaced in them so it's easier to replace the whole arm than press out the bushing. Others can chime in and correct me if I am off base.

Worn/degraded LCA bushings have also been identified as a source of suspension noises from what I have read.

In my case it was the passenger wheel bearing. Once you suspend the card - with all 4 wheels free - the suspension will not move anymore. And I still had the noise, while having all wheels free. The wheels will spin, but control arms will not - not to the point where the suspension will make the noise when car is suspended.
After changing the wheel bearing, I do not have anymore the noise. I can even feel my old bearing was out.
Fully agree the suspension can make noises as well.
I had the lower control arm -driver side- opposite to wheel bearing in question- changed last year. The mechanics cheated me, telling me the control arm is faulty, but it was not. Shame on me for trusting them...... They thought they can rip me off, but only winner was ford that sold a new control arm when it was not needed, as i did the control arm change myself. But they lost all my business, as i promised myself to never use their service on anything.

As you pointed out, the control arm comes with all the bushings pressed, all unit. Not sure it is possible anymore to change just the bushings as in the old days.