Air intake problem

[southtxexplorer]

My Explorer recently started sputtering, coughing and gasping immediately after starting on cold mornings. Once warm, it runs fine. According to my mechanic, the problem stems from the air intake which is plastic (as it is on all new cars & trucks). Because of repeated shrinking and swelling resulting from temperature variations, a small gap was created which limited the amount of air that was sucked in. Once the engine is warm, the plastic swells and the gap is reduced which is why the truck runs fine when it warms up. According to my mechanic, it is a very common problem. Has anyone experienced this and how common is it?

Thanks for the help.

 

[ChuckyD]

I dont know.. sounds kinda fishy.. i dont see how a gap restricts air??? But then again what do i know. How much does he want to fix it?

 

[B94Sport]

That doesn't sound right... First off, the plastic is hard, not like rubber. When cold, it will become more brittle, not so much shrink. It may shrink, but the difference in sizes would be millimeters, if that. This would not create a gap. For what he's claiming to be the problem to actually be the cause, your intake would have to made out of tire rubber. (Note how when it is cold outside tires will lose air). How many miles do you have on it?

 

[southtxexplorer]

The total repair is $300+ of which, only a small amount is for parts (I think approx. $30). He explained the problem and much greater detail. It sounded like it made a lot of sense when he explained it, but its not something I have any experience with.

 

[Byrd91]

If only 30 is parts that means he wants to do a few hours of labor, and I think everything in the upper intake is pretty easily accessable so it shouldn't take long. I would get a second opinion if it was my money.

 

[Campo]

I'd take it in for a 2nd opinion, If the air intake is leaking wouldn't it be like if you installed a KKM/K&N or drilled the air box? Maybe the mechanic ment intake manifold... I don't know but I'd take it somewhere else for a 2nd opinion...

 

[Jason_25]

The mechanic is not mistaking this for a problem with your intake maifold o-rings is he? If you have the SOHC, there is a TSB on it.

 

[Robert]

To elaborate on what Jason said, Ford extended the warranty on the lower intake manifold o-rings on the SOHC to 6 years/72K miles. The original style has a tendancy to shrink when the weather gets cold which causes an air leak into the manifold. This lets un-metered air into the cylinders which causes a rough idle until the engine warms up which causes the leak to shrink. Ford will replace these o-rings for free or you can pay your mechanic $300 for his diagnosis which will likely include replacing the o-rings during his repairs which will look like his original dianosis was correct.

 

[southtxexplorer]

Your explanation sounds more like what the mechanic said than I described above. Since it has almost 80,000 miles, I suppose it would not be covered under the warranty so I might as well have the mechanic do it. The CAM tensioners were updated by a dealership before the warranty extensions, would they have replaced the O-rings at the same time?

 

[nak4af]

try this

One easy and cheap thing to try is spray WD-40 all around the intake area while the engine is running. If you have any intake leaks your RPM's will rise. I have done this with a jeep I used to own and it worked like a charm, showed me right where the leak was at!

Good luck!

 

[Mark Drysdale]

Intake Gaskets

North Explorer

I have just fixed the same problem on my X by replacing the upper and lower intake gaskets, if the dealer did 00M12 then they should have done the gaskets as it was part of the recall, perhaps they skipped that bit.

Anyway I did mine last night and the X runs great now and it only took 2 hours, the new gaskets are totally different in their design.

You can see my thread in under the hood.

 

[Robert]

Re: try this

Originally posted by nak4af
One easy and cheap thing to try is spray WD-40 all around the intake area while the engine is running. If you have any intake leaks your RPM's will rise. I have done this with a jeep I used to own and it worked like a charm, showed me right where the leak was at!

Good luck!

The only thing spraying WD-40 did when I used it to see if my o-rings were leaking was cover my engine in oil which attracted tons of dirt until I did a steam clean. Ford's official procedure is to use propane while monitoring the short term fuel trims. If you see a sudden change in the fuel trims when the propane is present, it indicates a leak. That was the method I used to find my leak.

 

[Robert]

Originally posted by southtxexplorer
Your explanation sounds more like what the mechanic said than I described above. Since it has almost 80,000 miles, I suppose it would not be covered under the warranty so I might as well have the mechanic do it. The CAM tensioners were updated by a dealership before the warranty extensions, would they have replaced the O-rings at the same time?

If the cam tensioners were updated within the last 12 months/12K miles then they are still under warranty. If Ford were to replace them now, I would expect them to replace the o-rings while they were in there since their procedure calls for it. At 80K miles, you might get some consideration from your dealer. I would at least ask before spending the money. If your tensioners were replaced prior to the ONP release date in late 2000, then no Ford would not have replaced your o-rings at the same time. The release of the ONP is what instructs them to replace both at the same time.

 

[MikeP]

Southtxexplorer
If there is a Technical Service Bulletin or TSB on this leaking manifold problem, get a copy of it and take it into your Ford dealer. They should fix it for free, even if your 98 Explorer has more than 72,000 miles. The TSB will say on it whether it is to be paid by Ford. At first I did not understand these TSB's and paid for repairs that really should have been paid for by Ford. After I got copies of the Ford Explorer TSB's (from a Ford technician instruction center), the dealers did all the appropriate fixes at no cost - but I always took in copies of the relevant TSBs. As you probably know, the Ford dealer will not get paid as much by Ford for a repair as they will charge you, so many Ford dealers will charge you unless you insist that the repair is covered by a TSB. And I have seen Ford dealers do this phony inquiry into some computer data bank and come back with the answer that you have to pay - especially if you do not have a copy of the TSB giving the true story. When I did this the Ford dealer folks and then I showed them a copy of the true TSB saying that Ford would pay for this fix, the dealer guys mumbled something about out-of-date computer data. Good luck.
Mike in Seattle

 

[nak4af]

Robert

I have never heard about using propane! Sounds like it would be alot cleaner with the same results. Thanks for the tip!

 

[southtxexplorer]

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, I already paid the mechanic to do the repair. Its probably just as well since the Ford dealer near me will go to great ends to weasel out of any type of warranty repairs. Any way, thanks for the help. I will check for TSB next time.

 

[Robert]

Originally posted by MikeP
. . . The TSB will say on it whether it is to be paid by Ford. At first I did not understand these TSB's and paid for repairs that really should have been paid for by Ford. . . .

I don't know which TSBs you have that are paid for by Ford, but every one that I have printed out (20-25) has stated that the only time Ford will pay for the repair is if the vehicle is still uner warranty. The camshaft tensioner TSB is one such TSB and unless you are still under warranty or have a very nice dealer, Ford will not replace it at their expense. If you are not under warranty, Ford will charge 1.8 hours of labor to replace the tensioners and o-rings. The original TSB for just the tensioners allowed for 1.6 hours and was only elegible for coverage under the original bumper to bumper warranty. If the TSB has a statement such as "WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under The Provisions Of Bumper To Bumper Warranty Coverage", Ford won't repair the item at their expense if the warranty has expired. Here's the text:

Knocking Noise From Left Side of Engine at Start Up-4.0L
Article No.
99-26-5

12/27/99

^ ENGINE - 4.0L SOHC - "KNOCKING" HEARD FROM
LEFT HAND SIDE OF ENGINE AT START UP

^ NOISE - "KNOCKING" HEARD FROM LEFT HAND
SIDE OF ENGINE AT START UP - VEHICLES WITH
4.0L SOHC

FORD:
1997-2000 EXPLORER, MOUNTAINEER

ISSUE
A "knocking" noise at start up for up to 2 minutes from the left hand front chain cassette area may occur on some vehicles. After engine shutdown, the tensioner oil supply gallery empties. The noise may be due to air entering the left hand tensioner when the engine is restarted.

ACTION
Replace the left hand camshaft tensioner with a revised Tensioner Kit. Refer to the Instruction Sheet within the Tensioner Kit for service procedure details.

WARNING THE XU2Z-6K254-AA TENSIONER KIT IS FOR INSTALLATION ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE ENGINE ONLY. INSTALLATION OF THIS KIT ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ENGINE MAY RESULT IN ENGINE FAILURE. IF A TENSIONER IS NEEDED FOR THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ENGINE, USE KIT XU3Z-6K254-BA.

PART NUMBER PART NAME

XU2Z-6K254-AA Tensioner Kit - Left Side
XU3Z-6K254-BA Tensioner Kit - Right Side

OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES: NONE

WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under The Provisions Of Bumper To Bumper Warranty Coverage

OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME

992605A Install Camshaft Tensioner 1.6 Hrs.
Kit

DEALER CODING
CONDITION
BASIC PART NO. CODE
6K254 42

OASIS CODES: 497000, 702100

 

[MikeP]

Robert
I am sure the Ford attorneys have required the TSBs to have more limitations on how Ford pays for Ford screw-ups. The large number of flaws Ford has in their vehicles ranging from the Firestone tires to whatever is a huge expense to Ford. I probably was getting my Ford Explorer TSB repairs paid for by Ford under those extended warranty situations when Ford acknowledged the vehicle flaws (prior to the Firestone tire mess). It was my experience that if I merely relied on the Ford dealer to find the relevant TSB, I never got the flaw fixed under the TSB where Ford said they would pay for the fix. In fact when I located the TSB after I had paid for a TSB fix, showed it to the Ford dealer, they said "Too Bad", you paid and we can not refund you now even though it should have been paid for by Ford. What turkeys! After a Ford executive (headquarters Ford) happened to introduce me to the Ford training center on another matter, I got all the TSB's I wanted and a good education on this topic.
Mike in Seattle

 

[MikeP]

Robert
There is a need for Ford dealers to be much more informative and helpful to Ford vehicle owners on warrantys, repairs for Ford defects, etc. Your post implies you may associated with a Ford dealer in Mesa, Arizona. Your comments on this would be most helpful.
What is the true story?
It is my experience that the customer is at the mercy of the Ford dealer they are interacting with. During an extended interview (televised) with a Ford executive about a year ago during the heightened concern about poor Ford vehicle quality, the executive was asked how the unfortunate Ford vehicle customers could get their vehicles (I am pretty sure they were under warranty) fixed because Ford dealers were refusing to do it, the Ford Executive said "we have a 800 hot line they can call at any time and each Ford vehicle owner knows about this".
Well, I had never heard of this 800 Ford hot line and I have purchased Ford vehicles brand new, know a number of Ford headquarters folks, etc.
It this issue has been covered on this outstanding web site, I surely have missed it!!!
Have a good day.
Mike in Seattle (it will be a good skiing 3-day holiday weekend in the Cascades!)

 

[southtxexplorer]

I have had terrible luck with the Ford dealer in my area. I took my X in more than five times to have the dust boot shields updated. Each time, they would add more lube (by poking a needle through the rubber boot). I saw the needle tracks my self. This would rectify the problem for several days and then the noise would come back. Finally, I said enough is enough and I paid to have the repair done by a private mechanic who said the dealer screwed me with the needle trick. I wanted to complain loudly, but have heard that dealer networks actually keep a black list of people who complain to loudly and they may actually refuse to service your vehicle in the future. I actually heard this in reference to Chevorlet, but can't imagine the other nameplates are any different. In the end, I basically bit my tongue and let it go without complaint.