Another AC Clutch / Compressor question

[94_explorer]

Hello, first of all, I'm new here, but I've been browsing around for a while.

I have a 94 Explorer Sport. Over the past few months, I've heard the ac engage and disengage. I've read about why this happens (low coolant). However, I didn't do anything about it. Big mistake.

So, onto my problem. I was driving home from a hour long trip, and as I got off the fwy, I heard this weird sound. When I pulled home, I popped the hood and realised that the sound is coming from the AC Clutch. It's all red and flakey from overheating. It sounds different, but also bad, when the ac is engaged. It looks to me like the AC Clutch is totally shot. It wobbles a bit, but it's still going around and the belt isn't smoking or anything. I can't turn any part of the clutch when the engine is off. I've read that this means the Compressor is shot too. It that for sure? Is it possible that the clutch is so fried that it won't turn, but the compressor could still be ok? I would love to be able to replace just the clutch, and then get the system charged up.

If it's a Black Death, then I guess I'll have to bypass the AC for now until I can come up with the $ to fix the whole system. Is there any trick to bypassing the AC Pulley? How is the routing different and does the AC Pulley get in the way at all?

Thanks for reading and for any advice.

-Marc

 

[monkeydude3]

I have a 1994 XL, and I've replaced everything in my a/c system except the compressor and condenser myself.

I noticed under the hood on my Explorer there is a diagram of the serpentine belt routing, with one dotted line showing how it would be if there was no a/c at all. See if yours has this... I believe if you just buy a belt meant for an Explorer with no a/c, and put it on according to the diagram, you will bypass your compressor completely.

To me, it sounds like you need a new compressor. If you said the compressor clutch was red and flaky (overheating), what I bet happened is there was not enough coolant (and synthetic OIL) in the system, and the compressor seized up and then your compressor tried to keep going, and subsequently started slipping. What I don't understand, is why didn't the low pressure sensor realize this and cut the power...

If you have it done or do it on your own, be sure that the system is evacuated for around 10 mins (any more does no harm), prior to, and after compressor replacement, to get any junk out of there, and make sure it holds a vacuum of around 25-30 hg/in (i'm not sure of the unit of measure), this will assure you have no leaks. If it holds the vacuum for at least 15 mins, you are set.

By the way, do you have an R 12 or R 134a system?

I hope I helped, let me know

George

 

[Glacier991]

Tough to tell for certain based on your info. As for how to discharge, flush and evacuate ad recharge a system,go to useful threads and read the article on converting to 134(a). Lots of good info.

 

[94_explorer]

Monkeydude3 - thanks for the great info, yes, you were very helpful!
I don't know yet if it's R 12 or 134.

And Glacier, thanks for the info.

I guess I'll put a bypass belt on it first. Maybe I'll check out the ac clutch at this point and see what I can find. I may have to take it in for a professional opinion, but I'm always worried they are going to tell me a worst case scenario. We'll see what happens...

Thanks again,
Marc

 

[94_explorer]

Ok, I've got a few more questions about this:

1. How do I find out if I have a R 12 or R 134 system?

2. Could I replace the AC Clutch and put some freon in myself, and check to see if it works - and if it doesn't, can I pull the clutch off and use it with a new compressor without any problems?

3. With a new Serpentine belt that bypasses my AC, what on the AC should I disconnect?

4. With the belt off, is there any more tests that I can do to see if the compressor is shot?

Thanks again!
-Marc

 

[Glacier991]

1. How do I find out if I have a R 12 or R 134 system?

The fittings should give you a clue. If they are schrader type (look like a big bicycle valve with screw on connectors,) it's an R-12 system. If they have a large single ring "lock on" type of connector (not screw on) it is 134.

2. Could I replace the AC Clutch and put some freon in myself, and check to see if it works - and if it doesn't, can I pull the clutch off and use it with a new compressor without any problems?

If it is 134 you might be able to do that. The clutch can be removed and replaced without losing any existing charge.

3. With a new Serpentine belt that bypasses my AC, what on the AC should I disconnect?

nothing.

4. With the belt off, is there any more tests that I can do to see if the compressor is shot?

How does it spin/turn? what kind of noises does it make? Short of discharging the system and opening it up at a port and looking for signs of failure, there isn't a lot for you to do and check save spin and see if you hear ungodly sounds. (Or if can spin at all).

 

[94_explorer]

Glacier, thanks again for your detailed reply.

No, it doesn't spin at all. Is it safe to say it's toast?

 

[monkeydude3]

To me it seems as if your compressor is as good as poo. The way to replace that is going to require an evacuation/charging machine. If you can get access to one that would be great.

 

[Glacier991]

Yes it is likely toast if it won't turn. These compressors fx-10 and fs-15 are not the best out there.... but it is what we have. The biggest issue on a failure such as this is system contamination. the system parts that cannot be adequately cleaned wll need replacing, and the rest need a throrough flushing to clean out any metal particles... If there is a charge remaining it will need to be recovered before you work on the system.

Where is Cotati?

 

[94_explorer]

Cotati is in Northern California, an hour or so north of the Bay and about 20 minutes south of Santa Rosa.

Yeah, I doubt this is something that I will try myself! I will just have to wait until I can save up enough ransom to have a local mechanic do the job...

In the mean time, I'm just glad that I can still drive her around!

 

[Glacier991]

send me a PM, maybe sometime later on you can bring it up here and we can evacuate it and repair it and recharge it... ( I have the tools)

 

[monkeydude3]

I'm from Downers Grove, IL. If it were even remotely possible I'd gladly have your truck into my auto class and take care of your compressor, the only cost being parts. We have all the equipment to do a/c repair. Mine's been in there a few times, and my a/c works superb! No more leaks Good luck

George

 

[wingnutkev]

Glacier, you said you can replace the clutch without discharging the system. How tough is that. My clutch is bad but before it went bad the system had been worked on and charged and its r12 so a bit more costly to have recharged, I'd love to be able to fix this without going through evacuating and recharging.

 

[Bob K]

I am no mechanic, but had similar problem last August 2004 and replaced AC compressor/AC clutch, evaporator orifice tube, and accumulator/drier.

I had a local garage that specialized in AC repairs do the evacuate/recharge for $110, including a full test of the system after recharge.

I did not flush since the AC Clutch went only and the Compressor did not seize so I assumed no foreign metal sent throughout internal system. Orifice tube will show if metal grindings have been sent through system. Sounds like you will need the flush since likely compressor seized.

In your case, looks like you need new AC compressor/AC clutch and since to replace you need evacuate/recharge refrigerant, you should replace orifice tube and drier for an additional $70 in parts. Try RockAuto.com for these parts. I found a rebuilt AC compressor/AC clutch for $100 from a shop in Florida with a 90 day warranty. Some warranties are so restrictive its not worth the extra cost for new or rebuilt. So far no problems with my AC system now. Just checked its cooling ability yesterday and certainly within spec.

It is difficult to replace AC clutch only since you need special tools, etc. and needs proper alignment and balance for new pulley, it is more cost effective to replace compressor and clutch even though it involves dealing with the refrigerant. AutoZone has an orifice tube removal/replacement tool for free rental. Need hose coupling removal tool for $10 and other basic tools. Factory Service Manual or Haynes, Chilton can walk you through the repair. It takes less than 5 hours, not including the refrigerant evac/recharge.

Hope this helps.

 

[94_explorer]

Thanks to everyone, you all have been great. I really appreciate your feedback.

Glacier, you're awesome. Thanks for the offer. I will PM you...

 

[94pcofscheise]

Don't know if anyone answered this for you re: R12 or R134, but easiest way to tell is obviously to check the tag on top of compressor. I'd be willing to bet it's R134.

 

[Jason94sport]

model year 94 had 134. Unless you got a late 93 model build that was labeled 94.