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Anybody rebuild an A4LD

I may need a picture

If my memory fails me when I put mine back together. I wondered about that spring. Rebuild kit came with one and I couldn't figure out why it would need a replacement, how could it wear out. Makes you feel good that big chips of metal are standard! My 92 was made late 91 and came with the single band on the OD clutch. So they went back to the double wrap? I have to replace the OD clutch drum because it ground off the castle teeth on drum and star washer. Are there any design changes applicable when I replace this? I never saw it mentioned anywhere but I think the band ends should be tied with a wire to maintain shape while it is apart. If the band was allowed to spring open for a period it would probably induce cracks in the clutch material and might cause some bonding problems.
 



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Steve, I just ordered a copy last night. So far I've been referencing the Ford factory service manual (the big set of books that just about nobody bought back in the day) it's not very easy to read and they don't go into a huge amount of detail which is probably why Ford has such a difficult time doing decent rebuilds. :confused: This transmission is rumored to be out of 94 4x4 and so far from what I've seen it has all the right parts.

Opera House, Thanks for the info on the bands since I'm not planning on reusing the ones in the picture I just left them sitting there open I'll keep that mind when I get the new ones. Which brings up my next question, I've found a lot of sources for parts with everyone cliaming that their stuff is the strongest stuff to buy anyone have any personal experience with a company? Is there any difference between the rebuilds kits that are within in the same price range or are they just the same parts form the same company in a different box?

Here is a pic that made me a little nervous, there seems to be a lot of slop between these two enough that it worries me that one of them might strip over a period of time and enough shock loads.
 

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another parts source

Like Tim I havent used theese guys, but the web site has a good exploded view and a really complete list of parts . I dont know if they sell retail but it may be worth the call.

http://www.aceomatic.com/catalog/automatics/mfg.asp?n=ford

click on either the " text" box for a line by line parts list, or on "illustration" for a good exploded view with call outs to the text list. Also once in the text list you can click on the parts number and it will take you to the exploded view. One of the best online set ups for a catalog I have seen.
 






Since I have researched how to rebuild these A4LD transmissions, I have begun to start understanding how they work. Can anybody verify my theory on a A4LD driveability problem??!!?

My friend has a 94 2WD xplorer with a self destrucing transmission....aka; A4LD. A couple days ago, he got stuck in the mud, and had to call a tow truck for help. Instead of pulling him out, the tow truck driver decided to try and rock the explorer out of the mud by shifting from Reverse to Drive without pausing in Neutral. :-( He did this repeatedly. One day later, the explorer lost engagement in 1st gear. (1.5 yrs since complete rebuild) When you put it in Drive or OD, it no longer moves......nothing happens when you give it gas. The only way to get it to move, is to put in MANUAL 1st or 2nd, start driving and then switch to OD when the vehicle is moving..... Once in OD, the tranny operates fine.....until he comes to a stop, and the whole process is repeated over again. My theory is that the Forward Clutch pack is toast, and by putting the tranny in manual 1st, it causes some extra BANDS (or clutches to grip allowing for movement.

Anybody with an ATSG rebuild manual for the A4LD can look at the clutch and band application chart in the back of the book to see that more bands and clutches are applied when you are in Manual first and second rather than OD.

What do you guys with ATSG manuals think?
Note: Please do not reply back stating that it's time for another rebuild...... we understand that.....looking for a techinal comment..... ;)
Thanks, Al :redexp: :)
 






Am I mising something

I've been looking for a chart in the ATSG manual that tells what clutches are engaged in which gear.

That star washer is only $2.80 at bulkparts. On the back side of mine, the spline has ground 1/3 of the way through the washer. Is your part bowed up on the printing side? Picture looks that way and so is mine. The manual doesn't talk about orientation which leads me to believe it should be flat. My splines on the washer were also worn rotationally. I assumed this was because of years bouncing over the castle teeth.

I asked the question about the reverse servo ring to see if it was common to be supplied the improved double lip reverse servo. Bulkparts supplies the Toledo rebuild kit from SPX. Other than getting this double lip O-ring there isn't much difference. I think Transtec also gives you the little pop in filter for the valve body. I'm going to my local Transtar to check on their prices. Fortunantly, their distribution center is local to me. Web site is useless for prices. See what they say about new/rebuilt overdrive clutch drums. Bulkparts seems to have a neophite friendly web site with pictures and decent prices. Quite surprised at how many posters have asked them questions and got back technically competant answers.

B94Sport over in Gen Explr - Weekend Project - just did the replacement of the low/reverse servo O-rings with the transmission still in the car with dramatic results. No more clunking going into reverse. This was a 94 with only about 140K.
 






Close Al very close...

Al,

not the forward clutch but the rev/high, or the OD clutch.

ATSG trouble shoot guide:

Condition: No engagement in D or OD (1 and 2 OK)

possible cause: 1) linkage adjustment (doubtful from story)
2) Rear One Way clutch damaged :)
3)Dirty fluid (once again doubtful from story)
4) Overdrive one way clutch damage :)
 






Heavy Duty or Howdy Doodie

Went to my local Transtar yesterday. I had gone to their web site previously and it just sorta screamed, "beat it kid, we only deal with professionals", but a transmission guy told me they will sell retail. Probably because there is a whole underground transmission economy. My last rebuild was from one of these guys, no receipt, no sales tax, and probably no income tax. He told me he bought parts out of state, most likely so his state couldn't trace him. A buddy of his told me he makes over $50K just doing a couple transmissions a week. Anyway, went to Transtar and the office girls told me to drive around back where I found the oversize closet will call counter. After a couple of minutes a warehouse person showed up, told him I wanted prices, he dialed the phone and handed it to me. This is pure distribution.

I asked him if the new overdrive drum was better than the rebuilt. He said, "New is new." I keep hearing these stories of heavy duty parts on the message boards but have never found any. Rebuilt is $65 (+$6 core charge), new $130, bulkparts used was $88. Star washer was $7.45, and the torque converter was $105, this is $100 less than I could get it any where else. The moral is don't be afraid to ask. This is the wild west and prices are all over the place. Maybe it isn't heavy duty but this car is only going to be driven 4K a year for the next 3 years. They proudly mention on the web site that they only have 1% return on the torque converters. At first that struck me as high, then I thought that is a lot better than for starters and alternators.

Only other part that shows wear is the input shell. Rear bearing surface has grooves, spline is loose, and castle teeth have indentations, but it will work. The forward clutch friction plates show some wear and there is an extra steel plate next to the rubber cushion. This appears to be the good ole boy method of adjusting clearance. Six months after the first rebuild, I dropped the pan and found all this black powder. It cleared up later at later drains. Think this was friction material from the clearance on this clutch being a little too tight.

UPDATE: Got my parts and the star washer or overdrive adaptor replacement is flat.
 






A4LD Rebuild Tools

Can we put together a list of tools required for rebuilding the A4LD. When I look at my 4R70W ATSG manual, it shows all the tools needed each with their own "Ford" part number. According to the ATSG manual I would need 15 diiferent specialty transmission tools to do the job. NO THANKS!!! Is this really the case? or can you make your own A4LD rebuild tools? (how many are really needed?)

OK, so, what is the list of tools needed ....BESIDES the Front pump alignment tool. (already know bout that)

Thanks,
Al

#1: Front pump align tool (if replacing pump)
#2: Piston Compressor. (any homemade ideas?)
#3: Snap ring remover/installers
 












Speial tools

So far the only special tool I have needed is the one to compress the springs in the clutch drum. I was in a rush the first night to see if I could get the damaged OD drum apart and used an almost empty mylar shipping tape spool and a long bolt to compress the ring retainer. Form follows function. I later made a better one with two halved of thinwall tubing with a bar to pull it in. Had to buy a $3 C ring removal tool cause I gave up trying to find the one I have. I didn't replace pump seal but could have used a pipe for that and the alignment tool I would have just turned down on a lathe. As mentioned before that is only $60-100 and the only special tool you need.
 






Clutch Piston Snap Ring Removal

On the internal clutches, the snap ring is retained by a metal lip or posts on the spring retainer. It is necessary to push the outer edge of the spring retainer down about 1/4 inch to remove the snap ring. The ATSG manual shows a nifty tool to do this but a variety of home made devices could do this. It could be as simple as using a nearly empty mylar shipping tape spool, as I did one night. Or a small board with 4 or 6 long screws paced in a circle. I fabricated one out of a 4 inch diameter thin wall steel tube that was 2 ½ inches tall. A section of the sidewall was cut out so the tube could be bent to 3 ½ inch diameter. Basically, ovals were cut out of each side for viewing and tool access. That left nearly a complete ring on the top, so the device stayed in one piece, and two half moons on the bottom. A vertical column on each side supported these wide feet, much like the one pictured in the manual. This design is easily bendable to fit different diameters. The compressive force is supplied with two bars pulled together with a long bolt. The top bar is 5 inch and threaded for the long bolt. The bottom bar is 3 1/4 inch with a clearance hole for the bolt.. It takes very little effort then to remove the snap ring. Once you have removed the ring, the need for the retainer becomes obvious. Care should be taken when the rubber sealing rings are removed to note the direction of the sealing lip. Put them in backwards and you won't have much of a seal. Great care must be taken when reinstalling the snap ring. Visually inspect that it is properly seated. Push down on the edges of the retainer and the snap ring to see that it is all the way in. This was considered such a problem that they redesigned the retainer into a continuous lip instead of the posts in later versions.

The clutch plates, friction and steel are easily removed prior to the piston removal. The snap ring has a small lip on one end which can be caught with a small screwdriver. This is followed by a thick pressure plate and the alternating friction and steel plates. There is usually the same number of each but if the transmission has been rebuilt before, there may be an extra plate (.070 inch) to take up some slack. A clear sign to install new friction plates. This is the poor boys adjustment instead of installing a thicker snap ring. When the clutches are installed, you are looking for a clearance of about 70 thousandths (.055-.079 inch) between the snap ring and the pressure plate for all three clutch packs. You not only have to push down on the clutch pack to make this measurement but lift up on the snap ring New friction plates should be soaked in transmission fluid at least an hour before assembly to insure proper thickness.


Overdrive clutch had a retaining ring thickness of 0.0681 and I had about 40 thousandths clearance with all used plates. Installed three new steel clutch plates (which were slightly thinner, Allomatic) with the old friction plates and got the required minimum clearance. This was the rebuilt drum from Transtar Industries and doesn't use a full complement of springs (install three springs and skip a spring) . One down, two to go.

.Reverse-high clutch had a retaining thickness of 0.0681 and I had less than 40 thousandths clearance with all used plates. Again, installed six new steel clutch plates (which were slightly thinner, Allomatic) with the old friction plates and got the required minimum. This was from the transmission rebuild in 96 and wasn't checked too closely. Two down, one to go.


Forward clutch, the one with the rubber cushion, had a retaining ring thickness of 0.0819 and had more than 110 thousandths clearance on all used plates. But then, just how do you measure that when you are gauging against rubber. The interesting part was that this clutch had 5 friction plates and 6 steel plates. Although the friction plates showed no more wear than the others, this drum had the most friction material sediment. All friction and steel plates were all replaced. This time I was able to install six of each and still have the minimum clearance. This piston has the largest surface area of all the clutches and uses the flat sealing rings that don't have any install direction. For this piston, only the two bars and the screw were needed of my home made tool for removal.

The tightness of two of these clutches were probably the cause of the fluid blackening the first six months of operation after the rebuild in 96. Glad I found a use for the steel clutch plates, though it was never the purpose I imagined.
 






Good Write-up Opera House!!
Thanks!

Al
 












VALVE BODY

Be afraid, be very afraid.. No it's not that bad. But, there are do's and don'ts. Have an ATSG manual handy. Some valves won't match up exactly so make notes in the manual. Note spring colors. You won't be able to tell the players without a scorecard and THINGS WILL JUST POP OUT! Make lots of notes because there are some things that are no noted or vaguely mentioned in the manual. Never turn the valve body upside down, many of the keepers will fall out. Have a lot of plastic bags handy with slips of paper to write in them. Stuff that you write on the bags tends to just disappear. Working on a towel is a good idea. Parts that fall out don't roll very far when you do this.

The valve body is removed from the transmission as a complete assembly. There are several different length bolts. Just another reason to have the manual, page 83 indicates which goes where. A steel routing plate is sandwiched between the valve body and the transmission. This is the hydraulic equivalent of an electronic circuit board. This plate and two large gaskets are held together with three screws. These gaskets are thin, just a little thicker than two sheets of paper. Thicker gaskets may be ordered separately that are twice as thick if you suspect warpage. Why they just don't supply these as standard, I don't know! When you remove the three plate screws, the plate will pop up because of the springs of two pressure relief valves. These are very anxious to go flying. Next are a couple (4) of ball bearing check valves that you need to bag and there are two tiny hockey pucks that are the overdrive and intermediate check valve. There is also a push in filter on the steel plate that must be removed next to the converter solenoid. This is now a good time to wash the valve body. My transmission had been grinding metal for a while and there was quit a deposit of sediment on top of the steel plate but very little below it. After it is clean and oil free, it is much nicer to work on. Scrape off what gasket remains. The aluminum is very soft and easy to gouge.

It is probably easiest to remove one bore at a time, clean it, and then replace it. The very disappointing aspect of the manual is that it doesn't indicate the channels that the keepers go in even though it usually dedicates a page to each bore. You can figure it out, but it is a lot quicker to highlight the channel in the manual and use a marker on the valve body. Bore 215 and 216 are a little different, there is a keeper between the springs. Tweezers, a magnet for the keepers, and a dental pick are handy for this operation. The sad fact in my case was that almost none of the bores were able to be removed. This may be partly due to wear. But many of the aluminum plugs, the part that the keeper locks into, were scored by the last rebuilder. The decision mas made to pass on these. The valves seemed to move freely there was no upside to removing them. Any efforts to force them could only do damage. Since there are no O-rings, my suggestion is to just wash the valve body, remove/clean the two electric solenoid bores, and replace the gaskets. The valve body can always be removed later if there is a problem.

UPDATE: I went back later for a second attempt at removing the stuck bores. This time I used an elecrtric vacuum pump capable of producing 20 inches of vacuum. Through a vaiety of very soft rubber hoses, I was able to pull out most of the bores with this vacuum. Remember to lubricate them with petroleum jully before you reinstall the spools. Still, I never found anything that would give me a reason to take one apart again.
 






Wich one???

Manual first over drive cluctch applied overd. one way holding forward clutch appl. low reverse applied. rear one way clutch holding
Overdrive first= overdrive One way holding Forward clutch appl. Rear one way holding.
Sounds like overun sprag assy. has uncoupled itself at retainer ring.
 






Valve body.

Use patiance and compressed air to remove spool valves. Not cleaning the valve body = rebuild again soon. Dont bother reusing torq converter or overdrive sprag assy. Trust me on this one. They are parts that will save you money not cost. No short cuts on cleaning.
 






You have no sense of adventure

A little paint and some curtains, and it will be just fine. It ran fine with a ton of dirt in it. Starting to get cold and want to put it together. Certainly the valve body is the part I'm least happy with. If there is a problem I'll just do it again. I stored this for a year before I started working on it. Got a new torque converter and the sprag was replaced a couple of years ago. When finished this will only log 4K a year city driving. I'm amazed that I drove it for almost 5 years chewing up the overdrive clutch and star washer. What can you say about a guy who doesn't even use new friction plates when he allready has them.
 






Overdrive

the overdrive sprag was one of the weaker parts of the a4ld, But he cool part is once its chewed it will still lock,sort of.
 






To opra house

I used to do a cheat on the forward clutch that is now a kit. Machining a small amount off the presure plate and adding an extra friction and steel. The a4ld in my 91 has 7 steel and frictions 7 reverse/high and 5 overdrive. I pull a dive van with my x and its 5200 empty.
 



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Have a queation on rebuilt torque converters

I have been unable to check through their online catalog. I bought a F57L toeque converter for the Explorer. On another site I saw a F57 for unfer 4.0L applications ans a F57S for the 4.0L. I was quoted this converter on two seperate days so I don't think he misunderstood me. All the slip says is Ford long pilot low stall. Price was cheap enough. Did I get the right one? I know it will fit. Having a lot of fun. The only reason I kept this was to rebuild it. Like whats a 92 Explorer worth - $800.
 






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