Bad 4R44E bad,bad

[nmaineron]

I posted awhile back on how my tranny (4R44E) acted up after an engine change,got a 741 code,something to do with the torque converter clutch.I was told to drive away as it wouldn't be harmful to the tranny.Well.....The tranny died,got a new one and the very same problem is there with the very same code.It is at the tranny shop now where the problem is really throwing them for a loop.The wiring passes all tests as well as all of the solenoids and the tranny works perfectly until it throws the code.We replaced the computer and the speed sensor to no avail,put the old ones back.The wiring seems to be the logical culprit but all pass a continuity test.Help!!

 

[Glacier991]

Did you replace the Torque Convertor with the new tranny?

Were any other parts reused? It certainly sounds like a wiring issue....I agree.... Did they investigate the harness using a transmission tester or anything?

FORD Pinpoint test F comes to mind - Transmission Turbine Shaft Speed sensor and associated wiring. (Emphasis on associated wiring).

I am assuming the "new tranny" is not just a rebuild.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Some shops just do a soft parts rebuild, and don't do a thorough job cleaning out the valve body, or replacing all of the electrical components. I'm thinking that you might have a slight clog in the area where the TCC solenoid is, or possibly have solenoids that aren't too good anymore. Just because they read 26-40 ohms doesn't mean that they are the same as a new one. The EPC is a high wear solenoid being modulated on a constant basis, and the other solenoids could have a partial sludge build up as well.

 

[nmaineron]

This is a low budget project.I really couldn't afford the engine replacement as it is, let alone a transmission replacement.The trannny has not been rebuilt,it is a salvage unit that tests out well.It is just a little more than frustrating to realize that I probably ruined a transmission due to a bad wire.Trouble is the bad wire is not being cooperative so we are going to have to get creative ($).I think that we are going to install a switch and manually lock the converter up,and yes this is a different converter.Thinking that if the converter can be manually locked then that particular wire must have an issue,it just doesn't show up in testing.We are thinking that the wire probably got stretched and has just enough connection to pass a continuity test but breaks down when voltage is applied.

 

[Glacier991]

I can loan you the FORD transmission tester which can help pinpoint the issue. You can manually (electrically) engage the solenoids so you know if it is the command to the transmission that is lacking, or something downstream from that. (wiring or solenoid or....) It is a very handy tool in these situations.

 

[nmaineron]

This is getting really old!!!They went back to square one and removed the transmission checked out the converter and found a seal that was broken.Figuring that was the problem, replaced all and still the problem is there.The general consensus is that it is not an internal transmission problem.The harness has been completely removed and tested,the speed sensor has been replaced and a new computer has been tried.I quess what we need and don't have is a logic ladder that will tell us just what will throw this 741 code, like maybe the MAPP sensor or the Throttle position sensor or anything else that is remote that the computer sees.

Glacier, could you elaborate on the Pinpoint F test?
Can you overspeed the turbines in the converter?
Thanks, Ron

 

[Glacier991]

Ron.. explain to me how this shows up in driveability. In other words, what symptoms do you experience objectively, besides that damned light? Let me know that and I can better help. I am still caught up in the fact it existed in the old NAD the new. Did you re-use any parts? Like the Digital Tranmission range Sensor? (it tells the computer what gear you selected and is on the transmission where the shift lever enters the case). More info please.

 

[nmaineron]

The only thing that seems to happen when the light comes on is the shifting gets really harsh especially in the lower gears both in and out.The fault won't appear if I don't get to a speed of around 40 mph.When it is cold it takes quite abit longer to appear,maybe 10 minutes of driving time at various speeds.Shutting the engine down starts the whole proceess over except that the fault shows up sooner persumably because it is warmer.

As for what was replaced,I believe that the torque converter and the transmission were the only components.Basicly an unplug/plugin affair.I can't be certain of anything else.I will find out.

The whole mess started because of an engine replacement which we used as many of my parts as possible but I am not sure just which ones were mine.

Thanks, Ron

 

[Glacier991]

The harsh shifts sound very much like the computer goes into failure effects management mode (FMEM)... let me investigate further.

 

[nmaineron]

Been a couple of months now and still no truck.They went and wired in a switch to manually lock up the converter with some results.At times, even with the remote switch the converter wouldn't lock up,however he said that when he went into a store to pick up some parts and had left the switch in the lock the converter mode the converter had locked while he was inside and was close to stalling the engine,the converter wasn't locked when he when inside.I guess the next step is to wire in a volt meter to determine if there is a voltage drop or a low voltage condition.This is really crazy!!!

 

[BrooklynBay]

Put an LED on it like the ones they use for the alarm systems. They are already made to work on 12 volts without an external ballast resistor.

 

[nmaineron]

What do you do when the experts are stumped? This is just blowing me away.If it were something mechanical it would raise it's ugly head.They have checked and rechecked the wiring and the solenoid.The converter was manually wired and proven to be working properly.The TPS was changed,the MAF was checked and the coolent sensor was changed.It doesn't do its thing until the engine is warm or at least to a temp that is above cold, yet when I shut the system down for only a second it takes a few minutes for the fault to reappear.I can drive at a back road speed -under 30mph- all day and not bring the fault up.What to do,what to do?

 

[BrooklynBay]

This only happens above 30 MPH? Was the VSS ever replaced?

 

[nmaineron]

Yea,the VSS was changed with no results.

Today I am in the big city and went to a tranny shop and tried to tell my story.They came up with something that we haven't discussed.If the new engine that was put in was driving a manual transmission there would be an adapter plate that keeps the input shaft stable.Trouble is he didn't mention the name of the part and I can't seem to locate it in the book.It was about 1/2" thick and 3" in diameter with holes evenly spaced around the outside edge of the plate.I don't remember ever seeing this plate so maybe he is on to something.Do you know what he is talking about?

 

[BrooklynBay]

I know what it is. It is called a crankshaft to flywheel spacer. I think that is what you are referring to. There are 2 types used on the 4.0. The older vehicles have 6 holes, and the newer vehicles have 8 holes. Sonnax makes a new, improved one made out of billet steel. The Ford ones are powdered iron, and crack.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Check this link for more information: http://www.transmissionspecialty.com/parts/parts/56000-CS6.htm

 

[BrooklynBay]

This part will cause the front seal to leak if it goes. Do you have any leakage from behind the torque converter?

 

[nmaineron]

Thanks Brooklyn,thats the girl.Do I need this piece? I have a 3.0.I haven't been able to run the truck enough to notice if there is any leakage.

 

[BrooklynBay]

It is not used on the 3.0 engine.

 

[nmaineron]

That is good,but it doesn't make me feel any better.There are only a handfull of sensors that can effect this situation and all things mechanical test out.I just feel that there is a wire or plug that is breaking down and we just can't seem to catch it.Trouble is,all this trial and error stuff comes with a price and its getting way to high.

We have never really talked about compatability but the 3.0 is kind of a stand alone setup for the trucks And there doesn't seem to be any major issues in that regard.Everything seemed to fit well.I don't know if the engine came from a car or a van or a truck or if it was driving a manual or auto tranny and the same goes for the tranny.Mechanically they fit well,electrically they seem to be compatable.That really only leaves the jewelry to cause us fits.What to do,what to do?