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big hype about SAS

tom_mcmullen006

Well-Known Member
Joined
September 26, 2009
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City, State
Yelm Washington
Year, Model & Trim Level
1992 Explorer XLT 4x4
I have driven an explorer stock height with a straight axle swap. I dont see an advantage to it at all. Whats with all the hype? My IFS has been performing flawlessly out on the trails with the jeeps and k5 blazers and yotas. Can someone explain to me the advantage? I dont see one what so ever
 



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Easy way to gain ground clearance (with proper springs) and rugged/toughness for one. If you throw a set of 33's or 35's on the 31 spline Dana 35 TTB and beat it up off road, SOMETHING's gonna break. Ease of repair is another thing..

Disclaimer - by NO means am I ragging on or saying there's anything wrong with the TTB or IFS capability.
 






i am running 33's with absolutely no problem. the only thing i am worried about breakin at this point is the motor. its got 250k on it. the ifs is holding together flawlessly.
 






Also, flex.

By no means will we ever be able to articulate like an SAS.
 






the flex maybe true. But I have yet to find a downside to the IFS at this point in time. ive climbed steep hills with deep ruts. been through creeks, rivers, Mud pits water holes ice snow sand and it is keeping up with the jeeps and the yotas and the fullsize blazers Ive been running with
 






Ball Joints.
Control arm / Radius Arm bushings.
and for the 2nd gen, CV axles and torsion bars that hang up on EVERYTHING.

All wear out and get pounded on while off road. Whilst they do a good job, they just wear out and get annoying when you get it back on road, bent or torqued CV's just vibrate and sometimes make the truck uncontrollable at highway speed, in my own experience.

SAS will take the abuse and hold up longer.. less moving parts to get destroyed really
 






climbed steep hills with deep ruts. been through creeks, rivers, Mud pits water holes ice snow sand,...
And those terrains and surfaces are fine for the Explorer's IFS - its the rocks that'll kill it.

The recipe for rocks is generally clearance and "enough" down travel to minimize rollover and keep all tires planted (minimize loosing traction). So this usually means large tires (large enough relative to the boulder you are traversing) which often leads to broken axle shafts / u-joints (torque = force * distance => larger tire diameter = greater torque). Factor in the increased traction on the rocks (compared to rivers, snow sand, etc..) and all this will require some beefy axle shafts, which a solid axle swap often comes with.

And the front axle shafts arent really stressed on steep climbs because there's not really much weight on the front tires (traction is a function of weight [aka normal force] and a coefficient of friction). Where axle shafts are stressed the most is when most of the weight is on the front tires - like going backwards up an incline to get a better line/approach on the descend.
 






You keep saying "IFS". You don't quite have IFS, you have TTB (assuming we are talking your '92) which is between a solid axle and IFS (A arm). I guess technically it could be called IFS but isn't normally called that.

The TTB can do very well off-road and you can get quite a bit of travel out of it. The solid axle up front can also get an added mechanical advantage over TTB when one tire is pushed up the other tire is pushed down. Its not that much more than TTB since the pivot is so far but every little bit helps..

You can make IFS travel pretty far but its a lot harder and more expensive to do.

In general, SAS is stronger and simpler than TTB. I don't know if I'd say TTB is simpler than a-arm IFS but it does travel more and to me seems easier to lift and get extra travel.

~Mark
 






there has been some debate over whether a D44 (the most common axle used in an Explorer SAS) is actually an improvement over the stock D35. In terms of strength alone, stock vs stock, no. But as stated, a solid axle has a mechanical advantage over a beamed suspension and it is just plain simpler. And the D44 has a bigger aftermarket than the D35 could ever hope to have, leading people to upgrade the axle and improve it leaps and bounds over the D35.
 






The TTB has it's ups and downs. While it can be pretty capable in terms of flex and can take a decent amount of abuse, you will definitely break stuff easier than say a D44. When stuff does break, it's a b!tch. Last year I broke the passenger side u-joint. In order to get to it you have to drop the diff to get the stub shaft. To get to the diff you have to take off the radius arms. By that time you'll pretty much have the axle completely apart.
 






The TTB has it's ups and downs. .
No Pun intended I'm sure :-)

I have really seriously been considering an SAS but haven't any really really good reason too. I just think the clearence and articulation would be better. But I do not know. Would a 4 link instead the A arm set up be even better on an SAS?
 






If you think sas rigs are all "hype" then I invite you to come wheelin with me one of these days...

TTB works well with up to about a 33, throw a locker in the mix and you better have a light foot. If your TTB is holding up for you then it sounds like there is no reason to upgrade. If you do deside to go with something bigger theres lots of good info on here about built TTB setups and SAS swaps.
 






there has been some debate over whether a D44 (the most common axle used in an Explorer SAS) is actually an improvement over the stock D35. In terms of strength alone, stock vs stock, no. But as stated, a solid axle has a mechanical advantage over a beamed suspension and it is just plain simpler. And the D44 has a bigger aftermarket than the D35 could ever hope to have, leading people to upgrade the axle and improve it leaps and bounds over the D35.

While the D35 TTB does have D44 size shafts, it is still weaker in other areas compared to a D44. Obviously the gears and pumpkin itself is bigger, which adds strength right there. The biggest advantage is the hubs and bearings though. The hubs on a D44 are much stronger than a D35 and can take much more abuse. The locking hubs consequently are also stronger. Add on the fact there are less moving parts and just less to go wrong, a D44 SAS is going to be stronger than the D35 in any flavor.

Now, if you compare a solid D44 to a D44 TTB, the differences are minor. The D44 TTB should be able to take some serious abuse.
 






Would a 4 link instead the A arm set up be even better on an SAS?
Not to be too frank about it but suspension design has been discussed before on this forum and other forums on the 'net.
 






While the D35 TTB does have D44 size shafts, it is still weaker in other areas compared to a D44. Obviously the gears and pumpkin itself is bigger, which adds strength right there. The biggest advantage is the hubs and bearings though. The hubs on a D44 are much stronger than a D35 and can take much more abuse. The locking hubs consequently are also stronger. Add on the fact there are less moving parts and just less to go wrong, a D44 SAS is going to be stronger than the D35 in any flavor.

Now, if you compare a solid D44 to a D44 TTB, the differences are minor. The D44 TTB should be able to take some serious abuse.

With those shafts you mention already being the weakest link on either axle, how much benefit do you figure the bigger gears & pumpkin really are offering?
And though I don't disagree the D44's brakes and wheel bearing design certainly are better, not everybody is having problems with these areas on the D35 (and those that do can very often alleviate the issue simply by modifying the way they're tightening up the bearing locknuts).
Very few people are breaking Warn's D35 Jeep hubs (Warn pt# 37780), so I again have to wonder is this really a problem area when it's so easily upgraded?


.
 






The "advantage" of a solid D44 over the D35 TTB is relative to what you're doing with it.

The solid axle is stronger and has a slight ground clearance advantage. As mentioned, experience has shown solid axles tend to do good in rockcrawling, so you'd probably want one if that's the kind of use your rig sees.

The TTB setup enjoys advantages over a solid axle too, such as traction on irregular surfaces with the ability of both sides to droop or stuff at once, and increased wheel travel, which has made the TTB a top choice for budget prerunner/desert rigs and the like. The reason the TTB exists though, was it's main advantage, which is ride quality on most roads and surfaces, which is usually a lot nicer than most solid axles. The TTB wasn't made as an improvement over solid axles, it was made to have something in trucks that was still strong and tough enough, but didn't ride like a box of rocks.

I'd say it's more about tire size than anything. The TTB is fine for what it is and what it was designed for. 29-33" tires on the D35 TTB are okay, but after that it might be more trouble than it's worth to keep replacing weak points compared to doing a SAS. Not that you couldn't do a D44 TTB swap and get the strength benefits while keeping the TTB if you want the best of both worlds.

Really though, it's probably more about what's popular and proven and what works. Solid axles have been around for decades, they are the most popular drivetrain choice for 4WD vehicles, and a swap can be done relatively easily and cheaply, at least compared to most other alternatives. So you get something strong, that does the job, and is rather easy to maintain, and theoretically save money in the long run over constantly breaking and fixing something that is not quite up to the task, not to mention time, and spend more time wheeling.
 






Good points, though I disagree that a solid axle is stronger because it's "solid"...
The D35 TTB is infact quite close to the same strength as any D44. Like I already mentioned above, the parts that really matter here (parts most likely to break while offroading) are the same thing on both axles. Either one is capable of supporting 35" tires just fine (well, that is unless you drive like an animal, then either one of them can be broke with 31" tires lol). Where a D44 wins is with upgradability, there are many more aftermarket parts available for a D44. However you do have to be careful here... By the time you spend all your dough on these upgrades, you probably could've gotten yourself a D60 which IMO I think is a much better candidate for a SAS if you really need that kind of strength.

I also don't agree about the ground clearance advantage, that one fully goes to the TTB if it's set up correctly. Having cut & turned your TTB beams even furthers it's advantage (though there are tradeoffs in doing that too, so I would only suggest it on a "prerunner" type rig that's intended to be used at high speeds).
Where the solid axle prevails is with having less frontal surface area. If you're pushing through very deep mud or snow, it tends to pile up more in front of a TTB axle, hindering your progress.
 












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