Body on Frame vs Unibody

[peterk9]

Well you do have sand mode, for the people that know it makes a difference

From the Owner's Guide;

Note: The Sand and Mud/Ruts modes are for off-road use only

Peter

 

[Explorer0204]

From the Owner's Guide;

Note: The Sand and Mud/Ruts modes are for off-road use only

Peter

Well that just ruins that plan!
We're gonna figure this out... Whatever it takes!

 

[colintrax]

Well that just ruins that plan!
We're gonna figure this out... Whatever it takes!

I wasn't even going to reply to Peter, because it seems he missed my point. But I guess you did to. If you're smart enough to know the sand mode puts more torque to the rear wheels, and that would help in certain situations. Then you should be smart enough to understand what it's doing and the possible consequences. A slippery boat ramp is the same as offroad far as the car is concerned. Low traction is low traction. Just be prepared to gain traction at any second and keep the rpms low and trans in a low gear. Don't want the wheels to gain traction spinning any faster than they need to be.

 

[Kpwweb]

I will be stuck in the live axle era my whole life!!

It's just how I was born and raised man, I would change if I could, but I'm just the kinda guy that hears a v8 roar off in the distance and smile. I am who I am.

Is it a bad time to tell you that I also love my Harley Sportster with its now 35 year old engine/trans design and carburetor. Hehehe

I get that... I like ALL vehicles for what they are... Ive got a range from old to new... But like others have aluded to, to say one is best is not true... Take the humvee--all Independent Suspension but can go up a wall! For drag racing, give me a solid axle!

Everything has its place, and there is a place for everything...

 

[peterk9]

I wasn't even going to reply to Peter, because it seems he missed my point. But I guess you did to. If you're smart enough to know the sand mode puts more torque to the rear wheels, and that would help in certain situations. Then you should be smart enough to understand what it's doing and the possible consequences. A slippery boat ramp is the same as offroad far as the car is concerned. Low traction is low traction. Just be prepared to gain traction at any second and keep the rpms low and trans in a low gear. Don't want the wheels to gain traction spinning any faster than they need to be.

I got the point you were making. Just didn't want anyone thinking they could use the 'Sand' mode with the rear bias for regular highway driving/towing.

Peter

 

[Explorer0204]

I wasn't even going to reply to Peter, because it seems he missed my point. But I guess you did to. If you're smart enough to know the sand mode puts more torque to the rear wheels, and that would help in certain situations. Then you should be smart enough to understand what it's doing and the possible consequences. A slippery boat ramp is the same as offroad far as the car is concerned. Low traction is low traction. Just be prepared to gain traction at any second and keep the rpms low and trans in a low gear. Don't want the wheels to gain traction spinning any faster than they need to be.

I understand your use and I totally agree you're right... I'm just saying that my on road theory about uphill intersections and stuff like that on wet roads is now busted that's all. If I had a new explorer I would use that mode all the time slow speed maneuvering a trailer thoughtless.

 

[Explorer0204]

I get that... I like ALL vehicles for what they are... Ive got a range from old to new... But like others have aluded to, to say one is best is not true... Take the humvee--all Independent Suspension but can go up a wall! For drag racing, give me a solid axle!

Everything has its place, and there is a place for everything...

And I totally agree!!! Just that my PERSONAL uses can't be filled, at least at the moment with Unibody vehicles.

After seeing what the independent 8.8s on my Explorer can do I am now not against independent. Built right they are fine. Mine are sprung well even for 700lbs of trouble weight they hold up fine it is pretty shocking but awesome at the same time. For the record that is well within the axle rating as well so they should hold up.... But it is still impressive.

My moms 06 navigator with independent and air ride tows shockingly well for how short it is (compared to a pickup). The navigator has a tuned up 5.4 stock and a 6 speed that do oddly well towing even my dad's loaded 9 200 lb travel trailer... Though that was as heavy as he would go with that rig..

That being said my dad's old tuned up 6.0l f350 was the ultimate tow master.. Until it blew up of course....

But i digress. I've gone off on a tangent..

 

[dtr]

If so then why let you control the split in tow mode....
Only reason to use sand mode with a trailer is when traction isn't there. Like pulling a boat up a slick ramp. Get up the ramp and back to tow mode. No need for sand mode on cleanish asphalt a big rig can drive on.

That is what I was thinking. Only use sand mode for the ramp and similar problems then back to normal with sway control and other safety modes being back on.

 

[dtr]

I agree. The idea is the same. In application.. Nah.

Go to any jeep forum and ask them what they think of the Unibody grand Cherokee for off roading... I'll wait...


Yea, that's what I thought, they ALL hate it.

That does not mean they are right.

BTW, the durango may be rwd but it is unibody and it does get 7000 lb towing even if the EX unibody only gets 5000 lb

there are good unibody and better unibody just like frame

 

[Explorer0204]

That does not mean they are right.

BTW, the durango may be rwd but it is unibody and it does get 7000 lb towing even if the EX unibody only gets 5000 lb

there are good unibody and better unibody just like frame

Very true. Overall though most anyone will agree frames are better for towing. Though apparently the Durango has the whole United thing down pretty well.

I think we have exhausted this topic. We can conclude that they both have there purposes and are better in some ways while others are better in other ways. It all depends on what the user needs mostly and the trends that the majority sets.

 

[Dr Plastic]

The only the Durango R/T with the Hemi engine is rated at 7400 pounds tow capacity. The other models are only rated at 6200 pound tow rating

http://www.dodge.com/model-compare/quick-chart/?modelYearCode=CUD201411

 

[peterk9]

The only the Durango R/T with the Hemi engine is rated at 7400 pounds tow capacity. The other models are only rated at 6200 pound tow rating

http://www.dodge.com/model-compare/quick-chart/?modelYearCode=CUD201411

According to the website I looked at, the Limited, R/T and Citadel are capable of towing over 7000 lbs with the RWD models towing 7400 and the AWD towing 7200 lbs. They do required the 5.7L Hemi to do so.

http://www.dodge.com/en/towing_payload/2014/

Peter

 

[dtr]

The only the Durango R/T with the Hemi engine is rated at 7400 pounds tow capacity. The other models are only rated at 6200 pound tow rating

http://www.dodge.com/model-compare/quick-chart/?modelYearCode=CUD201411

YES

You have identified a limitation of 6 vs 8 cylinder engines

People need to understand towing is NOT a limitation of unibody construction

 

[Kesp4.0]

While major accidents have been addressed, I'm surprised we've overlooked the more common minor and low speed impacts. In a low speed impact you usually risk only minor damage in both types, and obviously in severe accidents both types have some type of crumple zone. In a unibody, however, some low speed impacts can tweak the frame which compromises the entire vehicles structural stability.
think about a multiple vehicle collision with 3 vehicles. You are driving along and hit someone in front of you, and then you are hit from behind as well. That first impact has already damaged the unibody "frame" and most likely has substantially weakened that vehicles structural safety.
Hell, just think about a minor accident that has tweaked a unibody frame enough to become a write-off where it could otherwise have been a couple of panels or a bumper replaced. My brother ad an accident in a 95 Corolla. Vehicle drove away but had a smashed front right fender and headlight. Insurance totalled it because of the frame damage, and nothing could align correctly. I was in a worse accident in my 1993 Explorer and I replaced a fender, bumper, headlights and a deflector panel.

 

[dtr]

While major accidents have been addressed, I'm surprised we've overlooked the more common minor and low speed impacts. In a low speed impact you usually risk only minor damage in both types, and obviously in severe accidents both types have some type of crumple zone. In a unibody, however, some low speed impacts can tweak the frame which compromises the entire vehicles structural stability.
think about a multiple vehicle collision with 3 vehicles. You are driving along and hit someone in front of you, and then you are hit from behind as well. That first impact has already damaged the unibody "frame" and most likely has substantially weakened that vehicles structural safety.
Hell, just think about a minor accident that has tweaked a unibody frame enough to become a write-off where it could otherwise have been a couple of panels or a bumper replaced. My brother ad an accident in a 95 Corolla. Vehicle drove away but had a smashed front right fender and headlight. Insurance totalled it because of the frame damage, and nothing could align correctly. I was in a worse accident in my 1993 Explorer and I replaced a fender, bumper, headlights and a deflector panel.

We can contort an unprovable and imagined scenario such that a frame wins for safety. Simply not supported by facts though. Unibody is a clear winner for safety in an accident because it absorbs more energy of impact.

Is there a greater chance the car will be totaled after an accident? Maybe? Do not know and do not care as my insurance rates are roughly the same frame or unibody, and in 40 years of driving I have never totaled a vehicle. I do realize an accident could happen tomorrow and when it does I wish to be in a safer vehicle.

How often do you get in an accident?
How often do you get in a serious accident?
Which is more important to you life and limb or a few dollars?

You really have to contort the analysis to have the answer be I prefer the less safe design IMO.

 

[dtr]

Biggest problem with unibody is probably that it is harder to modify it's use after construction.

For example

IF you do not design in hard points to attach a snowplow prior to making a unibody truck it is going to be harder to add it after the fact compared to a frame truck. Not that it could not be done, but it would be a lot more involved than a frame.

Like it or not unibody is coming to a driveway near you.


EPA window sticker for 2014 is 24 for small trucks and 18 for larger trucks
in 2025 it will be 37 and 23. That seems like quite a diet for trucks imo

 

[Kesp4.0]

Contort a scenario?? That's why it's called a "scenario". That's also why I used the qualifiers "usually" and "some" referring to both types of vehicles sustaining damage. I never said all, but it is well known and proven that even in some minor impacts a unibody can be considered a totalled vehicle. But to say it's "contorted" is ridiculous. While not the most common type of collision, they do occur. Is my scenario that out of the realm of possibility? There are facts that back up my assertion that the unibody's safety is compromised in a collision and there are multiple vehicle pile-ups each year. I certainly wouldn't want to be in the scenario (in EITHER vehicle, mind you) where I get crunched between two semi trucks, but in that scenario I'd certainly take the BOF over the UB.

And not supported by facts? I have no doubts that a unibody vehicle is safer in collisions, just due to the fact that the way it is constructed absorbs the impact better. But do you deny that an accident can damage a unibody's structural safety? Do you also deny that collisions occur where a vehicle is damaged both front and back? I only ask because I was involved in one, where I was the rearmost vehicle. The vehicle in front of me was a 2006 UB Honda Civic that hit a concrete barrier at about 40 mph (was going 55mph and braked hard, went to the right to avoid another braking vehicle). As it went sideways I hit the LR quarter of the Civic in my BOF Explorer at about 25-30 mph (I was braking HARD as well). His front end was like an accordion, and my Explorer pretty much finished off the rear. His airbags deployed but the UB Civic took the accident like a champ.

There is no doubt in my mind that the UB did everything it was designed to do, and did it well. I'm not arguing they are unsafe, hell I own and drive both types and feel confident in both of them. But don't doubt that this type of accident happens because it does, but there are a lot of variables to take into consideration. I think we agree on a lot of points here, but I believe from an economic standpoint that in the more likely event of a minor accident I come out ahead with a BOF. SUV's have been BOF for a long time and for the most part they have been very safe vehicles, and there's no doubt in my mind that a UB SUV has its place and its advantages, but it will be a hard sell because unlike regular cars, SUV's are used for such a wide variety of tasks. You just seem very hell bent on justifying your purchase. Was it buyers remorse? I feel the same way after making big ticket purchases

 

[Explorer0204]

Biggest problem with unibody is probably that it is harder to modify it's use after construction.

For example

IF you do not design in hard points to attach a snowplow prior to making a unibody truck it is going to be harder to add it after the fact compared to a frame truck. Not that it could not be done, but it would be a lot more involved than a frame.

Like it or not unibody is coming to a driveway near you.

EPA window sticker for 2014 is 24 for small trucks and 18 for larger trucks
in 2025 it will be 37 and 23. That seems like quite a diet for trucks imo

Current administration will not be in office then so those numbers could change...

 

[JCat]

Personally, I love the feel of the torque of a big V8, and the toughness / ruggedness / and hauling or towing capacity of a (heavy) framed truck. The sound and seat of the pants feel cannot be beat.

Yes I own uni-body vehicles . . . . but they just don't feel and drive the same. Almost mini-van or lady-like.

 

[Explorer0204]

Personally, I love the feel of the torque of a big V8, and the toughness / ruggedness / and hauling or towing capacity of a (heavy) framed truck. The sound and seat of the pants feel cannot be beat.

Yes I own uni-body vehicles . . . . but they just don't feel and drive the same. Almost mini-van or lady-like.

Exxxactly!!!