body sway/roll after new suspension

[johnnyt73]

I just got a bunch of things done to my truck. Overall, I'm pleased with the way it turned out, but I'm concerned about some sway/roll that I didn't feel before. I just did the following:
- add-a-leaf (just bringing it back to stock height, evening out the rear end -- barely lifted at all, maybe 1" maximum in back)

- RS5000's on all four corners

- 31x10.50x15 BFG All/Terrain KO

- both ball-joints

Here's the problem: taking into account that I have stiffer suspension, I would expect the handling to be much better and have less body roll/sway going around corners at all speeds, both highways and side roads. On the side roads, things are pretty much fine. I just did 500 miles over the weeknd, and know that the roll is worse than before the work.

On the highway, as I gradually turn into a curve (even a fairly easy curve), everything starts off fine -- everything feels under control. At a certain point however, the body of my explorer lifts a little more suddenly in the direction of the turn... it's as if the outside wheel is suddenly gripping much, much more than the inside wheel. This happens on both left and right turns/curves. No noises.

Is this a sway bar thing? Bushings? Tie rods? Did they screw something up when putting in the new ball joints? I'm only moderately familiar with the whole suspension/steering parts (have my Hayes manual just so I'm dangerous... i'm more of an electrical guy)... but I want to bring it back into them and tell them what to check.

ANYWAY... please, your help is greatly appreciated.

JT

 

[johnnyt73]

Slight correction -- I meant to say that it "lifts a little more suddenly towards the *outside* direction of the turn..." normal roll direction, if you know what I mean.

It's as if it suddenly passes a pressure point and let's the body roll more than it wanted to originally...?

Thanks!
JT

 

[Alec]

What tire pressure are you running? I'd run 33-35 psi.

 

[johnnyt73]

Without sounds like a complete newbie, would the tire pressure cause the sudden change in roll?

They are at 35 psi

 

[Alec]

If they were way too soft or hard, yes they could affect roll.

After my slight lift and with 31s, I felt more stable than stock. I'd check to make sure both your swaybars are properly connected and their bushings are all good.

 

[Byrd91]

The Rancho 5000s I just bought aren't for an Explorer (I'm lifted and bought what fit) but they are wicked soft. I've heard the 5000s have gone downhill lately, but then again my GFs dad just put all 5000s on his stock height Explorer and his are stiff so I don't know. Anyway, check the sway bar bushings and shock bushings.

 

[johnnyt73]

Will do; thanks for the tips, guys. I'm heading down there first thing in the morning and will hopefully have this sorted by the end of the day tomorrow.

JT

p.s. Byrd91: gotta love the Ripogenus Gorge on the Penobscot River -- i've rafted it a couple of times! Woohaaa!

 

[Alec]

Maybe you should upgrade to Rancho 9000s so you can adjust them? Just a suggestion.

 

[johnnyt73]

I just (and I mean last Thursday 5/22 "just") put the 5000s on -- don't really want to just give up on them so quickly. I did read (in this forum) that others found the 9000s were a bit better in the front.

I just can't put a ton more money into it -- and I doubt I can return them at this point. I like the stiffer suspension, IF only it was predictable... this odd shift in the roll is the only thing I have a problem with right now. Unless the 5000s ARE the problem, I'm pretty locked in... if it turns out the 5000s are indeed the problem, the extra $40/shock to go to 9000s would then be worth it to return to a stable ride...

... will let you guys know how the sway bar/bushings turn out...

 

[james t]

this may sound very basic... but did you check to make sure all the sway bar links were connected after the work? its possible that maybe one was left disconnected after the addaleaf or frontend work.

 

[johnnyt73]

And the answer is....... nothing loose/nothing broken/nothing disconnected.

However, they re-did the alignment, claiming that the machine was just re-calibrated and was probably off. It helped the handling. They also recentered the wheel. (I forgot to mention that I felt like I was fighting the wheel, had to push left a little to hold hold it straight...)

Anyway, it still isn't 100% the way I want it, but it is better. There's a little more play in the steering wheel. I'm going to bring it back in *again* and get them to really look hard at the steering wheel/box... I think that this may be the problem area, and not the alignment/suspension.

I'm probably venturing off-topic here, but I guess another way to describe it is that as I turn the steering wheel, I get an appropriate amount of turn in the tires. However, after I go past a certain point on the steering wheel, it's as if I get a huge boost in the rate of turn in the tires... It's as if I cross a threshold...

Anyway... it does handle a bit better now... I'm going to do some searching for steering box problems...

 

[johnnyt73]

Okay, back again...

I think I changed too many things at once here, so I can't narrow down the problem!!! ARGH... so much for the "scientific method"

I went to the tire shop, they had their 4x4 guy take it out on the highway. He is pretty sure that they add-a-leaf is the problem. He said that maybe it is the rancho shocks, but it sounds like it is 99% add-a-leaf.

Now, I didn't get it lifted -- just leveled out... but how can I eliminate one vs. the other? Other than just taking the shocks off and trying other shocks, or going back to the spring place and having the add-a-leaf removed?

The bottom line is that it isn't handling well, and I don't want to start pulling parts on and off this thing! Ugh...

 

[Alec]

The addaleaf can change the leaf springrate and cause a different ride. However, most of the time they stiffen the ride and reduce sway in the rear.

Much of this may just be due to the higher center of gravity you now have. Maybe think about upgrading the swaybars with Explorer Express products.

 

[johnnyt73]

I looked up the Explorer Express info... will give those guys a call this afternoon. It looks like the 95's have a hollow sway bar (stock)? If a stiffer (i.e. solid) sway bar is going to cut down on the roll, I'll look into that.

I also called the spring place, where I had the add-a-leaf done, and the guys there will take a look at it on Friday. They just happened to have mentioned a difference in spring rate... but they also suggested just removing the AAL's and re-arching the stock springs.

At the end of the day, I'm not concerned about having the extra height. I'm more interested in the stock height/all level -- so if removing the add-a-leafs and re-arch'ing the rear springs is a better way, I'll do that.

Someone I know thinks that if the rear springs with the AAL's are TOO stiff, I'll get a lifting from the rear when I take corners. That's because the outside springs aren't travelling the proper amount during turns, causing the inside half to lift up instead. What do you think?

Knowing that the spring place typically deals with trucks (as in box trucks) more often than explorers, maybe there's a chance that they just used the heavy stuff in the rear. Does anyone know how I check this?

Thanks!
JT

 

[JOHN V.]

John

Our X-Spec Sway Bars will definitely help your problem. You should keep the shocks you have. The upgraded sway bars are designed to reduce body roll. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[johnnyt73]

Okay... to follow up. They found one of the upper ball joints was really worn (I'm at 155K so no wonder).

The ride dramatically improved after replacing it. I'm still concerned that something else isn't 100%, but the ride is almost exactly what I expect. I'll look into beefy sway bars after trying it the rest of this week.

Thanks for your input everyone.