Breather valve went while offroading 2000 5.0L V8 AWD

[rigbyrigz]

Thanks again Koda2000. I know I tend to being verbose (as well as obsessive, LOL.) But good advice, thanks.

Just to set the record straight; he told me he "doesn't know if the gear oil he used (charged me $35 a quart) had additive in it"... "has to check, call him Tuesday." So I don't know what crap oil he put in, yet, if then. Thanks for all the info and patience.

 

[koda2000]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-8-8-Tr...Parts_Accessories&hash=item3aa2f35f5e&vxp=mtr

 

[rigbyrigz]

Thank you Koda2000; i'm almost thinking to purchase that nice affordable eBay spider gear set "just to have".

 

[rigbyrigz]

Well, the great eBay find Ford 8.8" Traction Lock 31 Spline Carrier Explorer Ranger Posi Center Section went fast, no longer available. Great deal found by Koda2000. You guys probably know that it was a used but excellent spider gears assembly...

FWIW I was planning to head to garage with my 4oz of Ford Friction Modifier Additive $5.99 Amazon find; coming on Wednesday due to today's snow events. Take garage up on semi-offer to put it in. I suppose a neighbor with a jack and a YouTube video showing the fill-valve could do it as well, but I wanted to hear what fluids were inside and such from the mechanic peanut gallery there.

Just NOW got a phone call from garage-owner. I don't like the "obsessive" tag much, so I will just relate the gist of the conversation for possible general interest, or comment. GO = GarageOwner

GO: I checked the fluids and it has the modifier additive in it so you don't need it.
ME: What is it the Royal Purple?
GO: I don't know but it's got the additive in it so you don't need it.
ME: I got the Ford Additive coming tomorrow; was gonna bring it by; might still be a good idea to put it in, so they say.
GO: (loud voice) Well, you can send it back, you don't need it. I told you it's already in there.
ME: Well, it was $5.99 I'll just hold on to it. Say, didn't the guys see the clutches when they worked on it so they would know it was an LSD?
GO: No, we didn't see any clutches, must be a real small set. Give me the numbers off the tag I gave you I'm gonna ask my guy what he can get for you in a spider gear set.
ME: I found this $60 spider gear assembly on eBay, $20 shipping, in great shape, pictures, a top-rated seller, everything looks great...
GO: You can't trust eBay. You get too much crap there.
ME: I've used eBay hundreds of times for my job; if you check the right stuff you can do real well. This one looks fine.
GO: Let me tell you something about gears. When they're used they break. I'll check on a new set we'll see what we got...

NO comment by me. I won't relate the voice volume or annoyed tone of any of the conversation; use your imagination you might get most of it. Right now I will continue driving, see how it goes for awhile, if he calls back with the spider gear set and a price, I will defer saying "good to know, thanks, let me see how things develop, maybe that will be the next step".

 

[shadowless127]

Well, the great eBay find Ford 8.8" Traction Lock 31 Spline Carrier Explorer Ranger Posi Center Section went fast, no longer available. Great deal found by Koda2000. You guys probably know that it was a used but excellent spider gears assembly...

FWIW I was planning to head to garage with my 4oz of Ford Friction Modifier Additive $5.99 Amazon find; coming on Wednesday due to today's snow events. Take garage up on semi-offer to put it in. I suppose a neighbor with a jack and a YouTube video showing the fill-valve could do it as well, but I wanted to hear what fluids were inside and such from the mechanic peanut gallery there.

Just NOW got a phone call from garage-owner. I don't like the "obsessive" tag much, so I will just relate the gist of the conversation for possible general interest, or comment. GO = GarageOwner

GO: I checked the fluids and it has the modifier additive in it so you don't need it.
ME: What is it the Royal Purple?
GO: I don't know but it's got the additive in it so you don't need it.
ME: I got the Ford Additive coming tomorrow; was gonna bring it by; might still be a good idea to put it in, so they say.
GO: (loud voice) Well, you can send it back, you don't need it. I told you it's already in there.
ME: Well, it was $5.99 I'll just hold on to it. Say, didn't the guys see the clutches when they worked on it so they would know it was an LSD?
GO: No, we didn't see any clutches, must be a real small set. Give me the numbers off the tag I gave you I'm gonna ask my guy what he can get for you in a spider gear set.
ME: I found this $60 spider gear assembly on eBay, $20 shipping, in great shape, pictures, a top-rated seller, everything looks great...
GO: You can't trust eBay. You get too much crap there.
ME: I've used eBay hundreds of times for my job; if you check the right stuff you can do real well. This one looks fine.
GO: Let me tell you something about gears. When they're used they break. I'll check on a new set we'll see what we got...

NO comment by me. I won't relate the voice volume or annoyed tone of any of the conversation; use your imagination you might get most of it. Right now I will continue driving, see how it goes for awhile, if he calls back with the spider gear set and a price, I will defer saying "good to know, thanks, let me see how things develop, maybe that will be the next step".

He's not necessarily wrong about stuff being hit or miss off ebay.

I suggest you find a new mechanic. Also, check the for sale forum, you may be able to find a spider gear set for sale by one of our members/vendors.

 

[kevinspann]

It's good to get different opinions. And yes, some gear oils say they already contain limited slip additive, which is great. But if it's still chattering when turning, it sounds like it needs more. You can add it yourself...



Obviously you don't need to drain what's in there, you just need to pull the fill plug and add the modifier.

 

[rigbyrigz]

Thank you Shadow... and Kevin...

Yes, I will somehow add the additive if things stay chattery; without "that" mechanic/GO's help.

I got the vehicle back Saturday; chattered/shuddered a bit
Sunday - didn't drive due to snow and ice
Monday: drove it; quiet as a mouse
Tuesday - didn't drive due to snow and ice

So, fingers crossed; many thanks.

 

[rigbyrigz]

"It's good to get different opinions." LOL, that's a loaded sentence of sorts...

Just to continue the reporting, another phone call today from Garage Owner:
GO: Well, I spoke to my rebuild guy. You're not gonna get anything worthwhile out of a gear replacement. When this sort of thing happens, the axles are gonna be messed up - slip and slide -, bearings too. Lots of noise. And a rebuild could cost you $1500-1800 then. Your best bet is to just get a used rear.
ME: Thank you. I need to digest that and get back to you.

 

[masospaghetti]

ME: I found this $60 spider gear assembly on eBay, $20 shipping, in great shape, pictures, a top-rated seller, everything looks great...

Sounds like your mechanic is ripping you off, BUT - I've gotten pure sh*t enough times on eBay that I would NOT trust no-name hard parts. There is no accountability there. Parts fail a year later? That vendor/manufacturer has probably disappeared or renamed itself twice.

$35/quart is ridiculous. My local NAPA has Mobil Synthetic 75w-140 for $22/qt. Valvoline synthetic was maybe $15/qt. I don't recognize "SXN".

I would run it for a a few trips and then drain and refill it with a fluid you know is good. I know the Mobil fluid has the limited slip additive already. Try that, if it still chatters, add the tube of supplement. I agree with the other posters here, unless your spider gears are seriously messed up, they will be fine - they might make a bit of noise, but nothing crazy.

At worst, just for reference, I had new bearings and seals put into my rear end for $450 out the door by a local reputable shop. If you needed new gears, figure a couple hundred extra.

 

[rigbyrigz]

Thank you Maso for input and advice. Whats promising right now is its running quiet on some local driving all week; kept to a minimum due to weather conditions. I will push it a bit when things warm up. Maybe the clean fill is doing some good the more it takes to the road (it was noisy or at least shudderish on turns, the first day back, but not since).

It may take a few weeks to get a couple hundred miles on it. Then time for another drain and refill, with additive. So may be a while before I report any news here. Thanks all!

 

[Flash]

I hate to see people getting messed about by people they have to trust.
That's one the main reasons I'm a DIYer, that and i'm a car guy.

What I would have done:

Back the Ex up on to some ramps.
Drain the diff oil.
Wipe as much mud as possible out with a rag.
Splash a bit of kerosene around and let it drain thoroughly.

Maybe flush with degreaser, then hose out then flush with much WD40. ( i used to sell a WD fluid that was so good the demonstration for it was to run an electric motor under water then put my finger in the water.)

Replace oil with additive using a silicone gasket.
Drive it around for a while to see if that worked.

Not much expense.

I know you're not a DIYer.

 

[rigbyrigz]

Thanks Flash. I got the big picture down pat anyway. Got my additive ready for the next drain. Not sure who will do it yet, but I know who WON'T!! LOL.

I was all psyched yesterday when I did 20 minutes driving at 45 and some turns and it was quiet as a mouse. Then this morning 7AM offroad-guy needed a ride to work (and his house pipes froze) so I took him; didn't let the Mounty warm up too much (we were at 0 last night) and there was 3-4 instances of shudder on the short drive, 3 while turning one while straight. Could have been road surface and a perception issue but I don't think so. I think all the (offroad) water is done/gone but during the day the sunlight melts some top-of-vehicle snow and it drips down I see the icicles hangin; i guess that could make for some "constriction" - is that a word? I guess in a few weeks when spring is finally here I can get a better grasp and test in. Thanks!

 

[Flash]

Thanks Flash. I got the big picture down pat anyway.

Yeah. Just vocalising about how somebody was trying to take a fair bit of money off you while somebody else could have potentially knocked it over for under $50 and a bit of time.

 

[rigbyrigz]

Update and report time on my limited slip rear differential that had broken breather valve when it was offroaded-muddy-ditch and abused by neighbor; thanks for anyone still reading...

It was about 3 months and 800 miles driving since the full flush and drain and refill (with presumably the right synthetic with friction additive included) mentioned above. The shuddering, mainly on slow turns and parking, had been intermittent; hadn't gotten better or worse. Some days a dozen instances, some days none.

Had trouble getting a friend, volunteer, or driveway mechanic to do the drain and refill again. Not up to DIY alone. Finally, with a relative on the phone that works as a mechanic-assistant at a Ford dealership several states away, YouTube, Google, and this GREAT forum, the deed was recently accomplished. (Thx especially to this forum.)

At the bottom of this posting is a picture of the recently re-drained DIFF oil. It sure doesn't have the nice black color one might hope for. True, it's not chocolate milk color and gritty like the initial draining 3 months ago. And it does not appear to have metal shavings nor does it move or swirl when large magnets are applied.

But it does look like water or (too much?) metal has taken it's toll; not sure what it means. The helper here thought this might be somewhat normal; and did not see leaks or cracks or other obvious compromise (though he did not take the DIFF cover off and do a brick-spray-out or other cleaning since my nephew at Ford mentioned that AFTER he had already added 2 of the quarts back in.) My nephew on the other hand saw this pic below said "looks bad".

Vehicle sounds better right now, just a few days of short drives and turns. A couple very mild shudders on some parking, an improvement from a week ago, anyway. I guess we wait and see now, drive it some more, maybe do the change a third time in a few months if it seems to be worsening or comes back full shudder force. Comments on the color of the drained (800 miles) DIFF oil pic (or on anything else) of course welcome... and THANKS!

 

[koda2000]

Update and report time on my limited slip rear differential that had broken breather valve when it was offroaded-muddy-ditch and abused by neighbor; thanks for anyone still reading...

It was about 3 months and 800 miles driving since the full flush and drain and refill (with presumably the right synthetic with friction additive included) mentioned above. The shuddering, mainly on slow turns and parking, had been intermittent; hadn't gotten better or worse. Some days a dozen instances, some days none.

Had trouble getting a friend, volunteer, or driveway mechanic to do the drain and refill again. Not up to DIY alone. Finally, with a relative on the phone that works as a mechanic-assistant at a Ford dealership several states away, YouTube, Google, and this GREAT forum, the deed was recently accomplished. (Thx especially to this forum.)

At the bottom of this posting is a picture of the recently re-drained DIFF oil. It sure doesn't have the nice black color one might hope for. True, it's not chocolate milk color and gritty like the initial draining 3 months ago. And it does not appear to have metal shavings nor does it move or swirl when large magnets are applied.

But it does look like water or (too much?) metal has taken it's toll; not sure what it means. The helper here thought this might be somewhat normal; and did not see leaks or cracks or other obvious compromise (though he did not take the DIFF cover off and do a brick-spray-out or other cleaning since my nephew at Ford mentioned that AFTER he had already added 2 of the quarts back in.) My nephew on the other hand saw this pic below said "looks bad".

Vehicle sounds better right now, just a few days of short drives and turns. A couple very mild shudders on some parking, an improvement from a week ago, anyway. I guess we wait and see now, drive it some more, maybe do the change a third time in a few months if it seems to be worsening or comes back full shudder force. Comments on the color of the drained (800 miles) DIFF oil pic (or on anything else) of course welcome... and THANKS!

IMO, that fluid looks pretty well water contaminated. I don't see how that can look that bad if the "GO" drained, cleaned and refilled the dif. Makes me wonder if he changed the fluid at all. It's not like there are a lot of places for water to hide inside a diff once the cover is removed and you wipe out the bottom.

 

[rigbyrigz]

Hi Koda, thanks!

3 months ago I saw SUV up on the lift; chocolate milk drain out. Left it there a day to dry out. Didn't see "what" they refilled it with, and GO was shady on this but hard to point there. Did he fill it with lubricant plus water? LOL.

I then drove it gently for a couple of months; 800 miles. No big puddles or anything even close. Wonder how water got back in, if indeed it is water. Nephew at Ford said something about now maybe needs "pinion bearing race and maybe the chunk" ...which is really "Greek" to me.

I know this sounds novice-level, but I am thinking maybe GO didn't clean it good first time (wipe-down, brick-spray, etc) and some muddy-gunk was still in crevices here and there. Over 800 miles it loosed and added. Then again last week the driveway mechanic drained and refilled it (under my eyes and aid) without removing the diff cover; wiping it down well and more (as nephew wanted.) That's why I am thinking a third time might be needed. Not that "messed up" spider gears would be less a cause of shudder than some grit and water or dissolved mud still mixing in with the diff oil... but whatta I know? - THANKS!

 

[rigbyrigz]

In case any new readers browse this, or others want an update, its now 8 months later.

Everything is appearing quiet and as good as new, like it worked itself out. No grinds chirps or gritty feelings.

Fingers still crossed, and thanks again to all.

 

[koda2000]

In case any new readers browse this, or others want an update, its now 8 months later.

Everything is appearing quiet and as good as new, like it worked itself out. No grinds chirps or gritty feelings.

Fingers still crossed, and thanks again to all.

Thanks for the update. Glad it worked out ok.