Camshaft Position Sensor

[chriswells78]

http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3878

Chris, is this the number of the tool?

The number sounds right-but the picture looks incorrect-

could you list the tool number of yours?

Yeah, that picture is incorrect. Mine looks like the one you pictured. Mine is part #6469

 

[Mikeri]

One more thing. The intermediate oil shaft is suppose to come out with the Cam Snyc Gear. Mine did not. It remained in place. When installing the new part, I had some difficulty seating the new Cam Sync Gear all the way, and furthermore, I was off about 1/16 of an inch from the scribe. I have run for about 1000 miles with no problems, although I have suffered a fall off in mileage, from 19 to 16. I don't know if this is winter formula gasoline or something to do with the new part. Since I have no codes, I assume I am OK. But, mind the intermediate oil shaft. If it comes out, you must insert it into the new Cam Sync Gear and properly align it into the oil pump.

 

[GeorgeR]

Ok, it looks as if I have few days to drive myself further nuts waiting on the parts to do this change, so please check me out on this; Since I will be replacing the stator etc, there wouldn't be a witness mark on the new synchro body. This makes locating tdc imperative. I have years experience working on pre-efi engines, but this is my first shot at the efi setup.
The way I used to locate tdc if I needed to is to drop a rod thru the spark plug hole and let it ride on top of the cylinder while turning the crank. When the rod stops rising, presto! you are at tdc. Does this sound right for this 5.0 efi?? Or am I getting more senile? I remind you that I am over 70, so please speak slowly and clearly.

 

[chriswells78]

The only thing different with EFI 5.0 and Carbed 5.0 is how the fuel, air and spark are delivered so yes, you are correct.

 

[GeorgeR]

One more thing. The intermediate oil shaft is suppose to come out with the Cam Snyc Gear. Mine did not. It remained in place. When installing the new part, I had some difficulty seating the new Cam Sync Gear all the way, and furthermore, I was off about 1/16 of an inch from the scribe. I have run for about 1000 miles with no problems, although I have suffered a fall off in mileage, from 19 to 16. I don't know if this is winter formula gasoline or something to do with the new part. Since I have no codes, I assume I am OK. But, mind the intermediate oil shaft. If it comes out, you must insert it into the new Cam Sync Gear and properly align it into the oil pump.

If I understand you correctly, the shaft remained in place, and you installed the synchro to the installed oil shaft and are running presently with that set up? Although it may be slightly out of time. The old carb V8 and 6 cyl would run with a small discrepancy in timing and was sometimes set up purposely that way in that's why you could rotate the distributor until it was set the way you wanted it.
Apparently, a timing light is useless with efi configuration, or do I misunderstand the concept of timing?
My cel came back on after I buttoned up the synchro, but it runs fairly well except for an intermittent rough idle, and there is nothing, no vane in the synchro or contact in the sensor. It appears that the timing was close when the damned thing disintegrated and still is, or it wouldn't run?
Thanks GR

 

[Mikeri]

Mine ran fine with a broken stator/vane also; but I was afraid some damage may occur if I did not replace it. Now, before you pull the old Can Snyc Gear, draw a scribe mark, going through the middle of the plug, back to the base of the Cam Sync Gear and the top of the engine housing. Put another scribe on the new Cam Snyc Gear in the same place. (Of course, you must find TDC before all this.) Insert the new part. Hopefully when it seats, the scribe marks will line up. Mine did not. Off 1/16 of an inch; but it runs great, although I have a small loss in MPG. I am tempted to repull mine and try again. this time I will pull the intermediate oil shaft and buy a new one, as the old may have been twisted a tad. What can you tell me about pulling the oil shaft?

 

[GeorgeR]

Mine ran fine with a broken stator/vane also; but I was afraid some damage may occur if I did not replace it. Now, before you pull the old Can Snyc Gear, draw a scribe mark, going through the middle of the plug, back to the base of the Cam Sync Gear and the top of the engine housing. Put another scribe on the new Cam Snyc Gear in the same place. (Of course, you must find TDC before all this.) Insert the new part. Hopefully when it seats, the scribe marks will line up. Mine did not. Off 1/16 of an inch; but it runs great, although I have a small loss in MPG. I am tempted to repull mine and try again. this time I will pull the intermediate oil shaft and buy a new one, as the old may have been twisted a tad. What can you tell me about pulling the oil shaft?

I can't tell you anything about pulling the oil shaft yet, because I don't have the new parts yet. They should be here by the end of the week. I'm sure that I may appear to be dense but; what plug are you referring to when you scribed the line?

 

[GeorgeR]

Mine ran fine with a broken stator/vane also; but I was afraid some damage may occur if I did not replace it. Now, before you pull the old Can Snyc Gear, draw a scribe mark, going through the middle of the plug, back to the base of the Cam Sync Gear and the top of the engine housing. Put another scribe on the new Cam Snyc Gear in the same place. (Of course, you must find TDC before all this.) Insert the new part. Hopefully when it seats, the scribe marks will line up. Mine did not. Off 1/16 of an inch; but it runs great, although I have a small loss in MPG. I am tempted to repull mine and try again. this time I will pull the intermediate oil shaft and buy a new one, as the old may have been twisted a tad. What can you tell me about pulling the oil shaft?

I can't tell you anything about pulling the oil shaft yet, because I don't have the new parts yet. They should be here by the end of the week. I'm sure that I may appear to be dense but; what 'plug' are you referring to when you scribed the line?

 

[Mikeri]

I doubt you are dense. The Cam Pos Sensor has a plug, in front. The new Cam Snyc Gear must go in with the plug facing the front of the engine. So, draw an imaginery line from the middle of the plug, over the top of the whole part, and come down to the base of the cam snyc gear. Scribe the base and the top of the engine housing. Then draw an identical scribe on the new cam snyc gear. So, when the new can sycn gears is inserted, the 2 scribe marks should line up.

 

[GeorgeR]

I doubt you are dense. The Cam Pos Sensor has a plug, in front. The new Cam Snyc Gear must go in with the plug facing the front of the engine. So, draw an imaginery line from the middle of the plug, over the top of the whole part, and come down to the base of the cam snyc gear. Scribe the base and the top of the engine housing. Then draw an identical scribe on the new cam snyc gear. So, when the new can sycn gears is inserted, the 2 scribe marks should line up.

I appreciate your patience. Now I clearly understand what you are saying. I totally forgot about the sensor itself, I was completely focused on the synchro.
I got part of my order today, the rest (synchro/gear etc) should be here by Friday. The oil shaft is relatively inexpensive but I don't know for sure if it is included with the Dorman set up or not. It appears from the picture that I have seen that the end of the thing is squared off so that it fits a mating recess in the oil pump, and I would think that the upper end is keyed someway to facilitate driving, but I won't know for sure until the thing gets here. I'm planning on doing a tuneup while I have access to the plugs etc.
Considering the price, $35.99 It (the synchro) may not have any of the acoutrements but who the hell knows. I'll just have to wait and see. I received notification today that the alignment tool has been shipped also so maybe it'll all get here about the same time.
According to what the online picture shows, the synchro is complete with shaft, gear and sensor. But that may be just wishful thinking on my part.
Thanks GR

 

[Mikeri]

Here is some more background..not from an Ex, but it explains more. In this case, the vane/stator was still good, so he did not have to find TDC. He could just replace with the Vane/stator in the exact same position. Note how he talks about scribes. http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=43437

 

[Mikeri]

One more thing. I talk with a mechanic. It is possible the intermediate oil shaft has a retaining collar, so it will not come out. And I have a question for you. Mine runs like a top. But a falloff in MPG. Could I have put mine in 1 tooth off. Or, would 1 tooth off cause it too run poorly. Maybe I just need to have the dealor refine my timing. Any ideas?

 

[Mikeri]

Wow, another great explanation. Good luck. http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t456632.html

 

[GeorgeR]

One more thing. I talk with a mechanic. It is possible the intermediate oil shaft has a retaining collar, so it will not come out. And I have a question for you. Mine runs like a top. But a falloff in MPG. Could I have put mine in 1 tooth off. Or, would 1 tooth off cause it too run poorly. Maybe I just need to have the dealor refine my timing. Any ideas?

In the only pictures I can find of the shaft, there appears to be a washer or stop near one end. I also read somewhere a reference to a hex mating configuration, so I'm assuming that the shaft ends must fit into a receptacle on each end. It only makes sense, but I can't be sure until I get it in my hand.
I'm only guessing, but I would think that 1 tooth would make some difference in the way that the engine performed. Your reduced mpg may be due to other factors.
In carbuerated engines; sometimes off timing will induce different characteristics with only a minute discrepancy which may be hardly noticeable and sometimes a such a small discrepancy will make the thing run like a piece of crap. Or it may perform well at certain engine speeds and lousy at others.
I'm guessing that you are on the money and that it's something else, assuming that you have run the engine at various speeds and it performs well.

 

[Mikeri]

Thank you. Since it runs like a top, I am not going to reswap it out. Funny, our Mounties have a history of losing MPG. Just read such posts in this forum. All of a sudden, bang, lousy mileage. If I get a little extra dough, I may have a dealor fine tune the timing like suggested in one of the above articles. But, I am too long in the tooth to be **** about things. It runs great. Heck, it may just be this winter blend gas crap they are refining these days. Anyway, you have made rest easier. I may be off, but by too little to go to any extreme. Thanks.......Oh, yes, the intermediate oil shaft is hex and fits right into the bottom of the cam sny gear. No brainer. One more thing, if you can't get the new part seated all the way in, I think there is a notch in the oil pump. Give some slight twisting and pressure and it will seat. It's really not that hard. Make sure you have TDC on the compression stroke. Put some whiteout on the graph to mark TDC. Get a partner to bump the starter to get close. Then hand crank. Good luck sir.

 

[GeorgeR]

Good for you. If you were off time I think it would show in the running or startup. One tooth in that gear is approx 24 degrees if I remember my math. I would think with the sophisticated electronics and such that either it matters a lot or doesn't matter much, and in your case it doesn't seem to matter much if any.
You are certainly welcome for any help you may have gotten from our conversations, unfortunately my experience with efi is severely limited, however this thing looks a lot like a modified distributor from the old days.
BTW I got The new syncro today. It came from Parts America/Advance Auto supply and included a sensor and an alignment tool all for $35.99 + shipping. But no oil pump shaft. Now we know. So, I have an alignment tool to dispose of because there are no returns from the place I purchased it. Depending on the weather I probably will try to get going on it tomorrow as soon as I pick up a set of wires. I may as well do the whole bit while I've got it up and the front wheels off. Could you see the timing mark on the crank pulley and the tdc indicator shown in Haynes book from under the vehicle?
You just think you are long in the tooth. I am working on 71 and crawling around under one of these buggies isn't nearly the fun that it was 65 years ago. We'll have to talk about Natchez and Vicksburg someday when we haven't anything better to do. (It's still fun tho, just a bit more frustrating)

 

[Mikeri]

I seem to recall you can see the marks from underneath, although you may have to clean. Use whiteout on the TDC mark and the pointer. Will help you see. I bet you can go with the oil shaft already in the car. Have fun.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Maybe related to your issue, maybe not, but I chased a P0340 code for a while, and it had NOTHING to do with the camshaft sensor. The EEC-V computer in these trucks will throw a P0340 code if it detects a series of misfires but can't determine which cylinder was misfiring. The logic behind this is as follows: the computer uses the camshaft sensor to sense which cylinder is firing at a given instant. "If the normal misfire detection (through the coil packs & CMP) doesn't work, then the CMP must be erroneous."

My misfires turned out to be the engine needing a valve job...

 

[96eb96]

Maybe related to your issue, maybe not, but I chased a P0340 code for a while, and it had NOTHING to do with the camshaft sensor. The EEC-V computer in these trucks will throw a P0340 code if it detects a series of misfires but can't determine which cylinder was misfiring. The logic behind this is as follows: the computer uses the camshaft sensor to sense which cylinder is firing at a given instant. "If the normal misfire detection (through the coil packs & CMP) doesn't work, then the CMP must be erroneous."

My misfires turned out to be the engine needing a valve job...

Are you sure that is not a P0300(random misfire)? The P0340 is just the PCM checking the integrity of the CAMSHAFT position sensor TDC pulse. It is either related to the wiring or the sensor itself. P0300 would be a CRANKSHAFT sensor issue.

 

[96eb96]

Good for you. If you were off time I think it would show in the running or startup. One tooth in that gear is approx 24 degrees if I remember my math. I would think with the sophisticated electronics and such that either it matters a lot or doesn't matter much, and in your case it doesn't seem to matter much if any.
You are certainly welcome for any help you may have gotten from our conversations, unfortunately my experience with efi is severely limited, however this thing looks a lot like a modified distributor from the old days.
BTW I got The new syncro today. It came from Parts America/Advance Auto supply and included a sensor and an alignment tool all for $35.99 + shipping. But no oil pump shaft. Now we know. So, I have an alignment tool to dispose of because there are no returns from the place I purchased it. Depending on the weather I probably will try to get going on it tomorrow as soon as I pick up a set of wires. I may as well do the whole bit while I've got it up and the front wheels off. Could you see the timing mark on the crank pulley and the tdc indicator shown in Haynes book from under the vehicle?
You just think you are long in the tooth. I am working on 71 and crawling around under one of these buggies isn't nearly the fun that it was 65 years ago. We'll have to talk about Natchez and Vicksburg someday when we haven't anything better to do. (It's still fun tho, just a bit more frustrating)

Uh oh, Dorman cheap made in China camshaft synchonizer sensors gave lots of headaches on the Taurus board. .

http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t53152.html