Clutch reservior - did I mess it up?

[Souljacker]

I'm new here and have been spending a lot of time scouring these very helpful forums (fixed my blend door, and some other minor issues - so thanks for that) but now I have a more complex problem and I think I may have messed something up.

Here's the problem: It's a 97 sport with the OHV engine and a manual transmission. When I shift coming into second, I kind of have to delay for a second and then pull it into gear. It doesn't grind when upshifting or downshifting, and there is no noise coming from the transmission. I just have to do that little delay before it will pull into gear.

I read some threads that had similar symptoms but they seemed to be either first or reverse, and the culprit was likely a leaky slave. Well I went to check my fluid levels and found the clutch fluid reservoir, but in my inexperience I of course was curious about the boot inside and I pulled it out. Did I introduce air into the line that is going to make my life even worse now?

And what level should that fluid be at? It wasn't filled to the top, but when I took out the boot it was filled to this point:

Is that where it should be? The cap says "to step" which I don't really understand. Did I damage it by taking out that boot?

Any help would be great.

 

[koda2000]

i don't have a manual trans in my Ex, but speaking from general experience, the rubber boot should be collapsed, and relatively flat in it's normal position. it only extends as the fluid level goes down. it's basically a gasket. it appears to me your fluid level is very low. you probably have a leak somewhere (probably the slave). the leak may be very slow at this point. usually the MAX/MIN fluid level is embossed on the side of the reservoir. the MAX level may only be a line near the top.

from your symptoms, it sounds like you just don't have enough fluid in the reservoir. i'd just fill it up and see if that solves you're immediate problem. unless you stepped on the clutch pedal without the boot and cap installed you probably haven't gotten any air in the system yet. if it's still not working properly after filling you may need to bleed it.

you must have a leak, because the fluid has to go somewhere. keep a eye on the level after filling to see had bad a leak you have.

 

[Souljacker]

Thanks for the super helpful answer. I'm going to try just that - but can anyone clarify what is meant by "to step"? Do I want to fill it to the top of the reservoir? I cleaned it all off looking for a max marker, but I don't see anything on the plastic itself. There's no dipstick on the lid either, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to how much to fill it.

I know that it's going to end up being a slave cylinder replace in the end, but I'd like to hobble around for the next few days until I get my hyundai back on the road and can put this guy in the shop.

 

[koda2000]

Thanks for the super helpful answer. I'm going to try just that - but can anyone clarify what is meant by "to step"? Do I want to fill it to the top of the reservoir? I cleaned it all off looking for a max marker, but I don't see anything on the plastic itself. There's no dipstick on the lid either, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to how much to fill it.

I know that it's going to end up being a slave cylinder replace in the end, but I'd like to hobble around for the next few days until I get my hyundai back on the road and can put this guy in the shop.

collapse the rubber boot and fill the reservoir to about 1/2" below the top. maybe "to step" refers to filling up to the step/protrusion inside the reservoir?

 

[RangerX]

The step is visible in your photo, it's the lip ~halfway down on the inside. It's also a visible step on the outside, like the reservoir increases in diameter slightly. That's the "step". If you fill it over that point, it will just spill out when you put the rubber piece back in.

 

[Souljacker]

Thanks to both of you for your replies, and that's exactly what happened Ranger. I put in some more Dot3 fluid, and it just spilled over. It was only just below that "step" line anyway, and the problem persists pulling into second gear.

Do either of you have suggestions of what to look for next to confirm it's my slave cylinder (or is it still pretty much a given)?

Should I do a atf fluid change? I'm not the first owner - I picked this up a couple months ago to have a 4x4 for the winter and she has 190k, but I don't know how often fluid changes were done.

 

[Rick]

Is it easy to engage gears including reverse when you're at e dead stop? If so it's most likely not the slave. However, if you have to pull the tranny for work replace the slave at the same time!

 

[Souljacker]

Yes, I just went out there, fired her up and noodled around. From a dead stop I can go into whatever gear I please without a problem. It sort of "clicks" into place - I mean it doesn't feel like my car does but I assume that's because it's a different type of vehicle and not because there's anything necessarily wrong. Before I bought it I had the mechanic who handles my car give it the once over and he gave her the mechanical thumbs up (there was minor stuff like ball joints that needed to be replaced but I understand that's to be expected). There's no grinding, and it goes into all gears (1-4, OD, and R) no matter what order I shift into.

Is there something else that could be causing this weirdness with 2? I should also mention it's more prevalent when upshifting as opposed to downshifting. No grinding, just have to delay anywhere from 1-4 seconds and pull down a couple times before it "catches" and lets me in gear. It's almost like something blocks it. Syncs?

If I can't figure it out (or it's something too complicated for me to fix) I'm going to take it to my mechanic, but I'm learning more about my explorer and want to do as much stuff myself as I can. I didn't think it was possible to fall in love with a truck but... There's just something special about this explorer!

 

[koda2000]

Manual Transmissions 101:

when you depress the clutch pedal, fluid is pressurized in the clutch master cylinder (the thing you've been playing with) and then forced through a line to the clutch slave cylinder (in exactly the same way your vehicle's brakes work). the slave cylinder then presses on the throw-out bearing, which presses on the clutch pressure plate, releasing the clutch disk thereby temporarily disconnecting the engine from the transmission's input shaft. when you change gears, synchronizers inside the trans allow the gears to mesh without grinding. basically the sychro's bring the gear sets up to the same speed so they will engage smoothly. when you experience difficulty putting your manual trans into reverse without slipping the clutch a little, it's because reverse gear has no synchronizer.

so, anything which is preventing, or slowing, the engine's disengagement from the transmission, or anything in the transmission which is slowing the process of the synchro's from meshing will create the problem you originally described. most often this is caused by the slave cylinder not allowing the clutch disk to fully disengage, but it can be because the clutch master cyl isn't pumping enough fluid to the slave, or even a bearing problem inside the transmission. where the tip of the transmission input shaft plugs into the back of the engine there is a small bearing/bushing called a pilot bearing this too can slow the disengagement of the clutch if worn. it doesn't seem to be a bad synchro issue as you're not experiencing grinding when changing gears.

my suggestion is to start with the least expensive and easiest parts to change.

Transmission fluid change: it couldn't hurt to change it. if the someone put the wrong oil in the transmission it could cause a delay when changing gears because if the oil is too thick and it could cause the sychro's to take longer get up to speed. check your owner's manual for the type of oil required. it may require hypoid gear oil of a particular weight, or ATF.

good luck, and please let us know what happens.

 

[Rick]

FYI, my 5 speed shifts best with Mobil 1 synthetic tranny fluid.

I have tried other brands, and some will definitely slow down the rate at which you can shift. Once I put in Redline fluid and it was so bad, I drained it and refilled it with Mobil 1 the same day! These trannys use automatic transmission fluid. If someone had put regular gear oil in that could definitely be a problem.

As far as mechanical issues, it could be a bent shift fork, or syncros going bad.

 

[Souljacker]

Thanks for the tip - so I should just forego getting the fluid from Ford? I ask because my hyundai doesn't like anything but geal oil directly from the dealer for some reason. I assumed fords were going to be the same, but if these explorers like the mobil 1 better I'll get that.

My owner's manual does indeed say to use ATF. I don't know what's currently in it. I'll have to check when I get home - probably won't do the actual change until next weekend. My little hyundai is neglected and she needs her new plugs and wires!

Thanks again - you guys are great. I'll post back with how it goes after the fluid change.

 

[Rick]

I've never used Ford's own lube.

 

[Souljacker]

Ok I'll give the mobil 1 a go then.

In regards to the shift fork, what could cause that to bend? I was rear-ended last weekend, could that have done it? As I was driving today, I thought about it and this second gear issue started presenting itself in earnest just this last week so now I'm wondering if it's related.

 

[Red Delta]

Just start out in second.

 

[Rick]

Getting rear ended with the tranny in gear will transmit shock into the tranny. It could be related, not sure exactly what would have been affected.

 

[littlezell]

my tranny has always been funky going in to second gear... I just changed the fluid and added a bottle of lucas.... and that is normal that what mine looks like except I have clear fluid... well now it dont have any fluid.... I blew a line out lastnight so I have to figure out where my leak is.... ugh