Cold Air Intake (CAI) Discussion

[XplrSprt]

Wow, I just googled it and wasn't aware of the design of that cai, it looks pretty cool actually. I'm guessing for the enclosed design of it, you don't have to clean it often.

 

[XplrSprt]

Here's pics from their website:

 

[pup5581]

Wow, I just googled it and wasn't aware of the design of that cai, it looks pretty cool actually. I'm guessing for the enclosed design of it, you don't have to clean it often.

yeah it's not open to the elements like the other CAI which is probably why you can go so long without checking it

 

[Livernois]

We have actually tested the MD CAI on a couple of full bolt on EB vehicles, and it ranges from 16-24whp less when compared to our Windstorm. The most famous of these comparo vehicles is:
https://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=425376

 

[MDesign Performance]

From an out-of-state, unbiased, third-party testing at a disconnected dyno shop we had seen gains going from an AirRaid/Windstorm to an MDesign first generation intake in horsepower and torque. Below is our testing and data.

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,4034.0.html

Testing done by Livernois involved our first generation intake system, we have also had our first generation intake system tested at the track which fell within .01 second of the Windstorm and the OEM intake systems in the 1/4 mile.

The Windstorm/AirRaid intake only won over the MDesign intake system on the Livernois dyno, in their own shop, while we have unbiased third-party data. Furthermore, testing was done with our first generation, discontinued model and we are on our fourth generation. We only post data that we receive from clients who perform these dyno testing at unbiased and disconnected interest shops across the nation.

2013 Explorer Sport EcoBoost
Base run (left sheet) = AirRaid/Windstorm Intake = 303.3 WHP / 269.3 WTQ
Post run (right sheet) = MDesign Carbon Cold Air Intake = 314.3 WHP / 286.4 WTQ.

2014 Taurus SHO EcoBoost (same platform)
Base run (in blue) = K&N Intake = 298.9 WHP / 341.9 WTQ
Post run (in green) = MDesign Performance 316.6 WHP / 383.7 WTQ

 

[Livernois]

Seeing as how you are within 2 miles of our shop we have invited you over for testing several times. You agreed to a testing session one time and then promptly backed out hours before you were supposed to arrive. We have no issue with an unbiased test session. We can even live stream it on our Facebook page

 

[MDesign Performance]

Seeing as how you are within 2 miles of our shop we have invited you over for testing several times. You agreed to a testing session one time and then promptly backed out hours before you were supposed to arrive. We have no issue with an unbiased test session. We can even live stream it on our Facebook page

There has never been an agreement. Furthermore, we have only been contacted once over 2-years ago, not several times and therefore your statements are libelous. An unbiased test session requires a disconnected, impartial party to perform the dyno testing which is why all of our testing is done out-of-state. Having the dyno testing performed by one of the parties falls clearly under the definition of bias.

 

[thefranchise713]

 

[Livernois]

18whp and 43wtq without supporting tuning and mods, IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[supr squirrel]

There has never been an agreement. Furthermore, we have only been contacted once over 2-years ago, not several times and therefore your statements are libelous. An unbiased test session requires a disconnected, impartial party to perform the dyno testing which is why all of our testing is done out-of-state. Having the dyno testing performed by one of the parties falls clearly under the definition of bias.

Not to be nitpicky, but how can this comment possibly be true? If you are invited over to be a part of/oversee the testing how is it 'biased'? You'll be there. You'll be a part of it. Unless the person witnessing the testing is a complete moron they'll be able to see if Livernois 'does something funny' to 'cheat' during the dyno testing.

Here's an idea. If you truly believe in your product do a test at both businesses on both dynos. With a person from both companies on hand during both testing runs. To me that is a lot more likely to get 'fair' results versus sending it out of state where the person doing the testing could do any number of things to 'cook' the numbers.

I'm impartial here. I have no interest in a CAI. Just think your 'bias' comment is silly.

 

[MDesign Performance]

18whp and 43wtq without supporting tuning and mods, IMPOSSIBLE.

We have actually tested the MD CAI on a couple of full bolt on EB vehicles, and it ranges from 16-24whp less when compared to our Windstorm.

Below 5252 RPMs any engine’s torque will always be higher than its horsepower. Therefore if you claim you made 24whp going from the MDesign Performance intake, a true cold air intake, to the AirRaid/Windstorm intake you should be in the ballpark of 35-40+ wtq gain. You are claiming it is impossible to gain 18whp and 43wtq going from a heatsoak prone K&N intake, which is exposed to engine bay heat and made out of aluminum, to a true cold air intake yet it is possible to gain 24whp and 35-40+wtq going from a true cold air intake to the AirRaid/Windstorm intake?

Not to be nitpicky, but how can this comment possibly be true? If you are invited over to be a part of/oversee the testing how is it 'biased'? You'll be there. You'll be a part of it. Unless the person witnessing the testing is a complete moron they'll be able to see if Livernois 'does something funny' to 'cheat' during the dyno testing.

Dyno machines will vary in measurements they output from dyno to dyno due to calibration, model and the correction software value. Because of this the same car can dyno different numbers every time on 10 different dyno's or 10 of same exact dyno model with the click of a button by adjusting software values.

All of our dyno results were performed out of state at dyno shops by clients who had a previous aftermarket intake and wanted to test against their MDesign Performance intake. We were notified of the start of the dyno by telephone and then received another phone call along with all video and data after the dyno was completed by the client. The clients selected the dyno shop of their choice and were there as an individual and not affiliated or associated with us.

We have no intention in turning this thread into a personal competition or back and forth show, we simply responded to a claim that you made with unbiased data.

 

[supr squirrel]

Dyno machines will vary in measurements they output from dyno to dyno due to calibration, model and the correction software value. Because of this the same car can dyno different numbers every time on 10 different dyno's or 10 of same exact dyno model with the click of a button by adjusting software values.

No, I totally get what you are saying and 100% believe it to be true. The point I was making is that, if one of your team is there to witness the testing (and vice versa) then there would be a lot less chance for that 'click' to take place. And if you ran the test at their shop and vice versa then there's even less chance for it to be fiddled with.

Like I said, I'm completely impartial here, but to me you're introducing another huge variable in it by sending it to a third party who may or may not be completely impartial.

At any rate have a good evening and good luck to you and your business.

 

[613GT500]

Snake oil is all that I'm seeing in everyone's product.

 

[Sgt1411]

Not to be nitpicky, but how can this comment possibly be true? If you are invited over to be a part of/oversee the testing how is it 'biased'? You'll be there. You'll be a part of it. Unless the person witnessing the testing is a complete moron they'll be able to see if Livernois 'does something funny' to 'cheat' during the dyno testing.

Here's an idea. If you truly believe in your product do a test at both businesses on both dynos. With a person from both companies on hand during both testing runs. To me that is a lot more likely to get 'fair' results versus sending it out of state where the person doing the testing could do any number of things to 'cook' the numbers.

I'm impartial here. I have no interest in a CAI. Just think your 'bias' comment is silly.

Regardless of a testing chaperone being present, any test thats conducted by, or within one of the participants facility is biased.

Especially testing done by the company selling the product for financial gain.

Uninterested, independent, with no financial gain or connection, 3rd party testing is the only true unbiased test of anything.

The 3rd party testing shouldn't even know the brand they are testing, the CAI should be generic with no identifying branding.

Biased comment is bang on.

 

[supr squirrel]

Regardless of a testing chaperone being present, any test thats conducted by, or within one of the participants facility is biased.

Especially testing done by the company selling the product for financial gain.

Uninterested, independent, with no financial gain or connection, 3rd party testing is the only true unbiased test of anything.

The 3rd party testing shouldn't even know the brand they are testing, the CAI should be generic with no identifying branding.

Biased comment is bang on.

Fair enough. Although I will point out that this isn't what MDesign Performance has discussed thus far:

All of our dyno results were performed out of state at dyno shops by clients who had a previous aftermarket intake and wanted to test against their MDesign Performance intake. We were notified of the start of the dyno by telephone and then received another phone call along with all video and data after the dyno was completed by the client.

To me what was just described leaves all kinds of room for bias. However, it certainly appears that MDesign Performance is considering that as 'unbiased testing', no? Leaving me to assume that the statistics they listed in previous comments could easily have been achieved in the same manner.

Then again I know what happens when you assume. So I guess I'm just a big dumb dumb and I'll go back to my corner and be quiet on the subject from now on. Have a nice day.

 

[Livernois]

Our parts, tuning and services are tested in the most independent fashion...by our R&D partners, vendors and most importantly our clients. They are tested on streets, tracks and dynos all over the world.

 

[thefranchise713]

So, @Livernois and @MDesign Performance, you two going to have a dyno day at a independent facility or what?

 

[Livernois]

We have 3 chassis dynos. If someone wanted to have a testing session it is always possible, just need to schedule it.

 

[bigtriplec]

I recently picked up my 2017 Explorer Sport and am on the search for a new intake kit. I really love everything about the Ecoboost except for the fact that I can't hear it.

Any suggestions?

 

[613GT500]

I recently picked up my 2017 Explorer Sport and am on the search for a new intake kit. I really love everything about the Ecoboost except for the fact that I can't hear it.

Any suggestions?

Take off the engine protective cover and you'll hear those turbos spool all day.