"Custom" Spring-Over Questions

[Paul]

I have the Rancho 2 1/2" Suspension Lift and want to upgrade the suspension to fit 33" tires without starting from scratch.
What I intend to do is swap out the 2 1/2" front coils with 4" coils and do a spring-over in the rear. I want to be able to continue to use the Rancho drop down bracket, radius arms, pittman arm, and shocks (instead of purchasing a completely new kit). Now here's the issue: A regular spring-over would put the rear end about 5+" (e.g., Superlift 5.5" Kit); is it possible to do the spring-over keeping just 2 (of the original 3) leafs per side in the rear?? Or would this conversion not be feasible??
Pinion Angle?
Drive Shaft Length?
Axle Wrap?
Anyone with suggestions or ideas, I'd appreciate your comments.

Paul

 

[CHH777]

I have found that it's possible to do a spring-over conversion and only net about 4" of rear lift:

(1) Buy some 3"-3.5" shackles. Four Wheel Parts sells them for Jeeps and they fit right up. (2) Remove the overload spring from your stock spring pack. (3) Have custom spring perches made as close to the axle as possible. You can add pinion angle at this point if you feel necessary (stock drive shaft length is fine).

I'll try to provide pictures as things progress...

 

[Trace]

Boy Paul, It sure didn't take you long to start thinking about more lift. CHH777 has the right idea with the lift, however removing the overload spring may contribute to spring wrap. The 4.0 engine can produce enough torque to twist the springs, especially with lower gearing. I will be contacting both Con-Ferr and Currie Enterprises for new spring/axel perches. If they do not have something that will work, then I will be fabricating my own out of 1/4" thick square tubing.

You should definately consider reducing the pinon angle, since you have the short wheelbase (ie. shorter drive shaft)on your Sport. You will also need to lengthen brake lines. If I remember right you were using RS-9000 shocks, correct? Rather than scrap those shocks, I would try to retain them in the mod. Check the lengths at both compressed and extended. Consider where you place your shock mounts. You don't want your shocks to limit suspension travel. Any thoughts on the rear sway bar? I will be maintaining mine, however quick disconnects similar to Dave's and Ryan's will be used.

By using the Rancho drop mounts for the Twin Beams, you should expect to change your camber angles 3 to 4 degrees. The adjustable camber bushing already installed on your truck may not permit enough adjustment range to fully correct. I am anticipating the same problems using my JD brackets. It is pretty easy to replace, but most shops charge around $100 in labor. Your extended radius arms will work fine, since they are as long or longer than the Superlift products.

Hope this isn't too much food for thought, to digest at one time. Let's keep each other informed how our mods progress. I am sure it will make it much easier for both of us.

Enjoyed running with you once again.
Trace

 

[rpenner54]

Well some food for though, For the drop mounts for the TTB you could do what was done to Ricks truck. I really think that something similar to that would work well for what you two would like to do. I sent Paul an email stating that I saw an Explorer with a 5.5" lift WITH the rancho radius arms.

As far as the rear sway bar goes I have not run with mine since I put the lift on. I am picking up some RS9000's tommorow night and hopefully get them installed by Saterday. I hope these shocks reduce a large amount of the body roll. If you plan on keeping the shocks I would recomend not trying to figure something out for the front to re-use the ones you have, just because you would have to do a lot of fabricating by either moving the shock hoop down or moving the bottom bracket up. Re-using the rear shocks shouldn't be a problem and would make re-ordering them easier.

In either case I can't wait to see the results of your guys work, and let me know how it turns out.



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Ryan Penner
1992 Explorer Sport

 

[Trace]

Good point Ryan. I had focused on the rear and forgot the front. I have already planned on getting better shocks with this mod. I wonder if 6 will be enough? (Images of monster show trucks are flashing in my brain)

 

[Trace]

Ryan,
It has been awhile since I looked under Rick's truck. What mod/bracket are you talking about.

 

[rpenner54]

Well the drop down brackets he has are the stock ones as far as I can tell. In those he has some more brackets that drop down another two inches. Basically one fits inside the other then gets bolted together. Rick if you have a good pic of these do you think you could post it? I think this would help out these two guys for what they want to do.



------------------
Ryan Penner
1992 Explorer Sport

 

[Paul]

Guys -
Thanks for the informative (and timely) feedback.
Trace - The shop I talked to has spring perches for $15 each. If Con-Ferr or Currie don't work out let me know and I'll mail you some.
I plan to reuse the U-bolts and base plate (with shock mounts) in the new installation. Obviously the U-bolts will be underneath the axle and the base plate will be positioned on top of the spring pack. The base plate and the shock mount will maintain its original orientation putting the shock mount behind, but ABOVE, the bottom of the axle. Hopefully, shock compression and extension will not be significantly changed (but if necessary, I'll buy new RS 9000s - same holds true for the front).
Ditto on the sway bar - - I'll be keeping it, but will fabricate the quick disconnects sported by Dave, Joe, Ryan, and Guy.

CH777 - Great idea on the shackles! Hadn't even considered that as an option. Hopefully that will leave enough space to keep the overload spring.

Ryan - Thought Rick's drop down bracket was Superlift (or maybe fabbed by FST). Since both he and Dave went with longer coils with the 5.5" kit, figured I could extend 1.5" longer coils as well (but understand the camber angle will need to be worked out).

Trace - Of course I had time to plan additional modifications to the vehicle - - how else to pass the time on the 12 hour trip back home...?

Anyone else with ideas or comments ???

Thanks.

 

[tiessen]

I am at the same point you guys are but am taking a different approach. I have a JD lift as well and I was thinking about a custom spring over and 4" coils in front. Then I went out in Paul Gagnon's Exploder and I was amazed. 2 days later I ordered my Superlift 5.5" lift (it's coming next week) and I have already sold my JD lift. By the time I factored in longer radius arms, dropped pitman arm, brake lines, and still a body lift to comfortably fit 33's, I'm not out much more money to sell the JD and go with Superlift. Rick's rig runs 3.5" drop brackets and 5.5" coils. I've been told that every 1" difference between brackets and coils is about 1-1.5 degrees of alignment, ie. the most you can do is 2" difference and still align. Hope all goes well.

Cheers

Dale

 

[Rick]

Paul, I'm runnng the 3.5" Rough Country brackets which fit inside of the stock drop bracket on the passenger side. The drivers side bracket is a regular add on drop bracket.

I do have difficulty getting a good alignment. It's now impossible to get zero degrees of camber. It's close, but there is no adjustment left to play with.

Trace, I can't remember who makes them, but FLY-N-HI sells spring perches which weld to the axle tube at whatever angle you want to weld them at. They're pretty cheap too.

In my opinion the best 4" lift out there is made by Donahoe Racing. He cuts the axle housing to get the lift and you use the stock bracketry. This is by far the strongest TTB lift.

I may send the axles from my parts Explorer to him for the mods.

------------------
Rick Horwitz
Editor
explorer@4x4central.com
Editor
www.4x4central.com

 

[Paul]

Well, the deed is done.

Picked up the truck today and it looks great. The rear spring over was completed by taking out the Rancho 2" add-a-leaf and the shortest of the three leafs (leaving the overload leaf in place)to net just about 4" of lift in the rear. New rear shock mounts were fabbed for the rear that allow the use of my existing RS 9000s, but keep the bottom shock mount even with the axle (and out of harms way).
New Superlift 4" coils were swapped with the Rancho 2.5" coils up front to level out the lift. I was able to keep the existing shocks, but have lost a bit of compression. When (or if) I buy new RS 9000s, I'll get a slightly bigger set.
Flexing out the rig identified that the drive shaft was too short, so that had to also be swapped.
All components and labor were less than the Superlift 5.5" kit...

Now all that's left is to get a few degrees of camber adjusted in the alignment, extend the brake lines, and of course...slap on 33x12.50s !!

Thanks for your help: Trace, CH777, Ryan, Dale, and Rick.

 

[rpenner54]

PICTURES! PICTURES PICTURES! Dead Link Removed So how does it ride with the new lift on it? Trace now its your turn! Dead Link Removed



------------------
Ryan Penner
1992 Explorer Sport

 

[Paul]

The ride so far is fine. I had the chance to drive it with just the spring-over complete initially and noted no significant handling problems or axle wrap (though I'll probably keep the RS 9000s on the firmest setting). After the front end was finished it does ride a bit rough, but that is more due to the waaay out of alignment front end (looks like the truck has rickets) which I'm sure will be tightened up by the alignement.

Photos will have to wait until the alignment and new tires are mounted (to appreciate the full effect).

BTW, the pinion angle was adjusted to accomodate the spring over.

Paul

 

[dmeis]

Hey Paul,

I am glad that you were able to upgrade.

Did you have to get a new driveshaft?

You might look into the Dick Cepek brake lines. My suspension can drop all of the way and the brake lines still have some slack in them.

You might also devise some limiting straps so you don't risk breaking your shocks when your wheels drop. Also, check to make sure your bumpstops are aligned right too.

If your new alingment bushings aren't enough, you should have your TTB's arched or the drop down brackets lengthened.

How do your Rancho radius arms work now?

David

 

[Trace]

I am sooo jealous. My wife put the stop to my spending for a short time. I will still have the lift completed for the Moab Run, thanks to my separate checking account. Let me know what you find on the alignment.

Be sure to post a photo.

 

[Paul]

Dave -
Thanks for the info. I guess I can tap into Dick Cepek at dickcepek.com or something close to that...
Ditto on the drop down brackets - - if I can't get close enough with the camber bushings, that would probably be the next step in getting a "true" alignement.
Think the radius arms will work great - - haven't taken it off road yet (still waiting to knock out the alignment). Do you have limiting straps on your rig?? Thought they were for either hard-core racers or just for show...
Trace - I'll post a couple of photos once the alignment is complete and the new tires are mounted.

 

[dmeis]

Paul,
I don't have limiting straps. I have removed my shocks and let the suspension drop all of the way. I still have about an inch of droop left for the shock. I think having the other side compressed might make it drop even more so I am going to work on getting longer shocks made up.

Your old shocks may be limiting your travel so limiting straps may help keep the shocks from coming apart. Not that they would but you never know...

 

[kvo]

Paul -

I also have a Rancho 2.5" lift kit. I would love to see pictures of your new set up and a possible write up when you got everything together. I'm saving money now for the mods like yours, in addition to getting the lockers. I'm thinking about getting the ARB for the front and a Detroit C-locker for the rear. What do you think?

Also, how are you adding a few degrees of camber?

[This message has been edited by kvo (edited 10-28-1999).]