Diesel Conversion anyone?

[IZwack]

Newtons third law plays into supporting the engine as it pitches to the side, creating a twist the frame must resist with an engine weighs over double that of a 4.0.

I assumed the person doing the swap wasnt just going to weld straight to the chassis w/o doing any modificatoins to it -- along with stiffer coil springs, a new cross member (since the stock stamped one will have to be cut out), and all the little details.

Also, 6BT put out about 450-500 ft lbs with in most stock forms without any gear reduction, an easy half of what you are claiming with the 4.0 with a doubler. Also with 600-1000 is not out of reason for a decently built cummins. Add any gear reduction and you have a wad more torque.

My argument was not about how much torque the 6BT is putting out, but rather that this RBV frame will handle it just fine because the RBV frame will probably never get to "see" all that torque. There isnt enough weight at the rear axle and no one is going to put their vehcle in 4wd while on asphalt so all that torque is going to go to the rear wheels which can not get enough grip to push back that same amount of torque but in opposite direction -- it will spin and break free. So even if an engine puts out 1,000 ft/lbs of torque but the amount of grip at the rear axle (weight at rear axle * coefficient of friction) is less than 1,0000 ft/lbs, then we will never see 1,000 ft/lbs. Its like pushing against a block of foam vs a brick wall -- no matter how strong you are (engine's rated torque), you wont be applying that much much force (torque) against that block of foam (the road) because if you do, the foam will just fracture and crumble (when the tires break free).

 

[turbo cat]

Well someday I hope to make it happen. the toughest part would be stifening the chassis up and all new running gears; suspesion, springs, rear end, crossmember, x braces you name it. I hope someday ill be able to dig in. I have found many full running 89-90 cummins rams for under 2000.

here is a few rangers that have doen the swap one is 2wd and the other is 4wd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgHixX37lb0

http://www.supermotors.net/vehicles/registry/11421/32191

 

[turbo cat]

Well someday I hope to make it happen. the toughest part would be stifening the chassis up and all new running gears; suspesion, springs, rear end, crossmember, x braces you name it. I hope someday ill be able to dig in. I have found many full running 89-90 cummins rams for under 2000.

here is a few rangers that have doen the swap one is 2wd and the other is 4wd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgHixX37lb0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gastk7-eJY

http://www.supermotors.net/vehicles/registry/11421/32191

 

[dkchrist]

I understand of your arguments and I am not trying to burst bubbles. It is just some of these things you do not often see brought up with this kind of engine swap. Whether or not the torque will get to the ground, it is there and needs to be addressed for the off chance the truck does hook up. If they can make drag cars hook in the 10.5 classes anything is possible.

(Also, by arguing a little, I can pull a lot of good info out of everyone)

 

[bobby walter]

a stock 12 valve non ic cummins isnt gonna tear up a rbv frame that is in good condition in a 2wd application. my frame on the otherhand would not qualify for such.

in a 4x4 if properly caged, i dont see it being to big a threat depending on terrain/tire size.


my 6.5 is na still and is not a threat for road use. eventually, even with the turbo installed....i dont have any worries but that is because i will be adding to the frames capacity due to age.

in the past i have cracked and repaired my frame due to (improperly)removing material to fit the bigger gassers in there..

the cummins is a better engine by miles, but i dont need it and like the quiet little 6.5...its reletivly smooth and i dont have any insulation whatsoever so the fact it is decent in nvh really lends me some arguement to use them.

just cant believe there are not alot more rangers with 6.2/6.5 diesels in them.

 

[mooktank]

I used a cummins B3.3 and I got 32MPG my last tank. 2" Body lift but other than that all stock. I have a section dedicated to it on my website at www.mooktank.com.

 

[bobby walter]

mook!!

 

[01explodersport]

my explorer has a diesel. least it sounds like it sometimes anyway

 

[Silver X]

Haha, mine sounded like a diesel too, until I finally replaced the engine. Nice and smooth now.

Bobby,
You are right down the street from me. Mind if I check out your diesel Ranger? Looks like a cool project. I really wanted to do a similar swap on my '01 Sport, but didn't have much time for it to be down. Would have to keep the 4wd too, and I didn't want to have to figure all that out.

 

[GreenMando]

The diesel Bronco II is pretty cool. We could never get away with a mod like that in Calif unfortunately.

I would think that one of the major hurdles would be to find a trans that could fit and survive behind the diesel engine.

CA is not that hard on diesel conversions. I know of a 3/4 ton ford with a caterpiller diesel. He swapped out the motor, tranny, both axles and he boxed in the frame. He delivers 40' and 45' shipping containers with the truck, the used containers we can buy. CHP pulls him over all the time thinking he is over weight.

 

[bobby walter]

Haha, mine sounded like a diesel too, until I finally replaced the engine. Nice and smooth now.

Bobby,
You are right down the street from me. Mind if I check out your diesel Ranger? Looks like a cool project. I really wanted to do a similar swap on my '01 Sport, but didn't have much time for it to be down. Would have to keep the 4wd too, and I didn't want to have to figure all that out.

actually i moved away last spring. i am sure you know my rig though:roll:


some pics here. http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35931 not sure if that link will work, i am working out of state but my older kids moved back to detroit and i am in the area often...lost my small detail write of what i did when i was working on it at cardomain...o i would have posted i already. i was hoping to find a clean ranger while working in florida and just swap the body before i went home at a junkyard, or the drilling pad i am workingat if a yard wouldnt let me work....


i would not have bet i could not find a gen 1 ext cab down here that was usable.....kinda bummed me out.

 

[mooktank]

My last tank was 34mpg. I've also prevented about 2000lb of CO2 from entering the atmosphere. That's in 5000 miles.

 

[jseabolt]

I am real interested in an idea of a Diesel explorer. Anybody know of somebody with one? It's been one of those thoughts that I think about now and then. I drive a School bus and just love the sound they make. Not to mention the power.
Anywho, we have a Ford Minibus or "short bus" for transporting all the sports equipment for team trips. So, questions......

Engine
I noticed that the engine compartment isn't really too big. I haven't been able to see the actual engine. But could that work? Has anyone tried it? The bus is one that has the Van front so it has the shorter front.

Gauges.
The display counsel is very similar to the one in my X and if the engine stuff were possible then could it be possible to modify the wiring/wiring harness to use the existing display with the Diesel computer? Just thinking.

Axle

I realize that the tranny/driveshaft/tranny would have to be upgraded as well due to the increase in torque. If anything could the rear axle/tranny/Driveshaft from the bus (not a Dually....ALthough, that might be cool) be used to replace the Ford 8.8/and all that stuff? If anything, you could go full width in front with a D60 or something like that to beef up the front and match the bus rear.

This would Ideally be done with a Donor bus, so everything from the bus would be there. I've driven our bus and it has pretty good pickup. I can't Imagen what that would be like in an Explorer. Obviously it would require alot of custom fabbing. but would it be doable?

Edit: also, does anyone know of a good site to find dimensions for different engines?

Time to revive an old thread.

I just got back from the beach and after buying 60 to 80 gallons of gas, it
got me thinking how nice it would be to build an Explorer I could get at
least 35 mpg with and haul my family and all our stuff for a trip to the beach.

Back in my "earlier" days of turbocharging sounded like a good
idea at the time until gas went from a $1.00 a gallon to $2.50 a gallon.
Well more for 93 octane.

I got to thinking. What about going with a diesel in an Explorer? I'm not
talking about a 6 cylinder Power Stroke but rather something
like a 4 banger turbodiesel.

My first thought was to use an engine out of a Volvo. Ford owns (owned?)
Volvo so maybe that wouldn't be considered sacrilege? I mean nothing as bad as putting a
Chevy 350 in a classic Ford that came with a flathead.

I'd like to stay away from anything computer controlled. Mechanically operated. For simplicity.

Using a European Ford diesel engine would be great, like from a Ford
Sierra. Or maybe a Ford Transit van. Importing one from Europe would be expensive
though and your not sure what you might get.

Anybody got any suggestions?

 

[PercyLT]

Diesel engine that fits perfectly in a 2d gen Explorer

You could import an engine from a wrecked Ranger in Central/South America (up to 2006 Ranger if it is Central America, they replaced the model with a version manufactured in Thailand, a Ford badged Mazda BT50 in this region). They had two engines, a 2.5 turbodiesel and a 163 HP 3.0 turbodiesel powerstroke (still true in Mercosur Countries, South America).

This model, the one cited first in this reply (2004-2006, Centralamerican model), uses the same frame and front suspension from the 2d generation Ford Explorer, as well as the dash, so I think it would fit with no problems at all (you could also buy the electronics together with the engine, it could be a fairly easy swap). The HP does not sound like an exciting number, but 380 Nm of torque at 1.600 rpm...

There is a thread which refers to one of this Rangers:

Ford Explorer Ranger Enthusiasts "Serious Explorations"® > Ford Rangers > Ford Ranger Forum > Ranger Registry
2.5L Turbo Diesel RANGER, 4x4, Crew cab

Also, with this torque and bad road tuned suspension (like most Latin American/Southeasten Asian diesel Japanese designed trucks), these trucks, although compact, are rated 1 ton (short ton = 2000 pounds; not permitted in the US though).

Hope this info helps...

 

[PercyLT]

Update

The Ranger referred to in the thread

Ford Explorer Ranger Enthusiasts "Serious Explorations"® > Ford Rangers > Ford Ranger Forum > Ranger Registry
2.5L Turbo Diesel RANGER, 4x4, Crew cab

is the Thailand manufactured rebadged Mazda BT50; I just checked some of the pics...

This will not be a good source for an engine to fit in an Explorer, here is a link to a pic of the Ranger which you should be looking for, I mean for an engine swap... http://ciudaddeguatemala.olx.com.gt/ford-ranger-turbo-diesel-ano-2005-4-puertas-iid-43597078

 

[blueka]

What about a Land Rover V6 Tdi? Also seen in Jaguars.. Although that might just be in Europe...


Si

 

[PercyLT]

Good choice, not a perfect fit with some components, like the Ranger, but a very appealing option.

In any case, it is best to buy the engine together with the transmission...gas transmissions don't mix well with diesel engines.

Wrecked Discovery from Central/South America could be an interesting source (Tdis are also the most common engines for Land Rovers in the region, a 4 cylinder 2.4 tdi from a Defender could do also). This would be an interesting project requiring more work; it worths it...Land Explorer...

 

[blueka]

The Ranger in Guatamala is different to the Ranger that is sold in North America.

You have the same Ranger as sold in Europe. They have either a 2.5 or 3.0 TDCi engine. Usually a manual trans and tcase.

At least if you get the stuff out of a Land/Range Rover you might be able to make use of the auto hill decent or other stuff.

Si

 

[PercyLT]

That is correct, until 2007 of course, when they started selling the Mazda BT50 as a Ford Ranger in Central America. In South America you can find the Ranger cited in your reply, very popular in Argentina.

Most car and truck versions outside the US seem to European versions (except Mexico, the same as the US), except for some models with 0 safety features in Latin America and South-eastern Asia (India also). Last time I drove to the US with a diesel compact SUV, starting from Mexico, all people at gas stations stared at me as they thought I was putting the wrong kind of fuel in my tank.

Anyway, you are right, it would be nice to swap the Land Rover Tdi together with all its gadgets, including the hill descent...

 

[jseabolt]

One popular swap with the Jeep crowd is the Cummins turbo 4.0, 4 cylinder engine used in bread and snack trucks. However they are quite expensive. A used one is like $3,000.

The upside is it's mechanically controlled (no computer).

The downside is the engine is built to mate up to a GM transmission.

Cummins also makes a 3.0l 4 cylinder which makes 85 HP but 215 lb ft of torque (if I remember correctly). I'm not sure what this engine is used in.

I'm not sure if that would move a 4200 lb vehicle with four people and luggage across a mountain though.

Another consideration is can you build an Explorer that get's good gas mileage? If you put something underpowered in it might be counter-productive.

For Example. I had a 1994 Jeep Wrangler. 2.5 liter 5 speed. What a gutless POS. I'd push the engine to redline between shifts just so I could keep up with traffic. Going up hills was a challange. I'd build my speed up to 75 mph just so I would be doing 50 mph in 3rd gear by the time I reached the top.

Gas mileage was a consistant 15 mpg. Probably because of the way I drove it.

My Subaru has a 2.5 liter/5 speed engine and get's twice that and makes more power.

There is no difference in fuel economy between the Wrangler 4 and 6 cylinder versions because of the gutless undered power 2.5 liter.

I sure hope Chyrsler is building something better than what they used to. Being a Fiat enthusiast, I'd glad of the fact that Fiat took Chyrsler over.