Direly need advice!!

[Wibb]

I've got a 2013 Explorer Sport with about 12,700 miles on it. I was recently changing oil and discovered several oil leaks.

The largest has completely covered the bell housing right at the inspection plate. Now to the other... Both turbos are leaking oil. I've also got a leak starting on the valve cover gasket at the front of the motor on the inboard head.

I took this to the dealer and they aren't going to warranty anything! What recourse do I have here? I'm about to pull my hair out with this one! There is no way this thing should be leaking anything with only 13,000 miles on it. They wouldn't even put this thing on their lot as a certified pre owned at this point. I'm beside myself and wondering if anyone has any feedback that may help.

I'm OCD about my vehicles and I've changed the oil three times since it was new. It's only had Mobil 1 Advanced and Motorcraft filters. Oil was changed at 1,000 miles, 4,500 miles, and 9,000 miles.

Help!

 

[xlt03]

I've got a 2013 Explorer Sport with about 12,700 miles on it. I was recently changing oil and discovered several oil leaks.

The largest has completely covered the bell housing right at the inspection plate. Now to the other... Both turbos are leaking oil. I've also got a leak starting on the valve cover gasket at the front of the motor on the inboard head.

I took this to the dealer and they aren't going to warranty anything! What recourse do I have here? I'm about to pull my hair out with this one! There is no way this thing should be leaking anything with only 13,000 miles on it. They wouldn't even put this thing on their lot as a certified pre owned at this point. I'm beside myself and wondering if anyone has any feedback that may help.

I'm OCD about my vehicles and I've changed the oil three times since it was new. It's only had Mobil 1 Advanced and Motorcraft filters. Oil was changed at 1,000 miles, 4,500 miles, and 9,000 miles.

Help!

Have you checked your oil fill cap on the valve cover to see if it's loose or missing? If it's loose or missing oil will come out of it while the engine is running and dump oil onto the valve cover and then the oil will run all over the place including all of the places (items) you listed.

Given the model year and now being March 2017, you're probably out of warranty since it's 3 years or 36,000 miles. Did you buy the ESP (manufacturer extended warranty) or a third party warranty? If yes you may want to call and go down that road. My guess is that you didn't have an ESP since dealer " wasn't gonna warranty anything".

My guess is that the oil fill cap is loose or has gone missing. Any chance you spilled oil when filling the crankcase at last oil change? For good measure check the oil filter also to make sure it's tight.

I agree at 13,000 miles oil leak as you mentioned would seem unlikely. Unless something ruptured. My Sport is relatively new to me and I haven't had a chance to go over everything to look at the "plumbing". Keep us in the loop on the outcome.

 

[Wibb]

Oil cap is 100% in tact and tight. Nothing running down the engine at all. The dealer specifically stated that they couldn't identify where the oil was coming from (for the larger leak on the bottom) and that they put the dye in. It wasn't "showing it's ugly head" was the exact term used in conversation.

Like I said, I have turned a lot of wrenches in my day and I'm very OCD with my cars. There is absolutely no good answer to this other than they should be fixing the problems. I do not have an ESP on the vehicle. Everything I mentioned should be covered under the powertrain warranty.

I'm not even sure what to do at this point. They seem to have me hamstrung...

 

[Jon M]

I hate to even ask this, but since you didn't mention it, was it low on oil before you did the oil change? Did you see evidence of the leaks on the ground? Any indication at all, before getting under it?

 

[Wibb]

I hate to even ask this, but since you didn't mention it, was it low on oil before you did the oil change? Did you see evidence of the leaks on the ground? Any indication at all, before getting under it?

Zero evidence of leaking. It's not dripping from the vehicle, it's just enough to soak the bell housing. It was low on oil however, which they cannot explain. The engine is "using" nearly a quart in 5000 miles.

 

[blwnsmoke]

This is what is covered under your powertrain straight from the 2013 warranty guide.

"1) Your vehicle’s Powertrain components are covered for five years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first. The extended coverage applies to the Engine: all internal lubricated parts, cylinder block, cylinder heads, electrical fuel pump, electronic engine control unit, engine mounts, flywheel, injection pump, manifold (exhaust and intake), manifold bolts, oil pan, oil pump, seals and gaskets, thermostat, thermostat housing, timing chain cover, timing chain (gears or belt), turbocharger/supercharger unit, valve covers, water pump"

 

[Wibb]

This is what is covered under your powertrain straight from the 2013 warranty guide.

"1) Your vehicle’s Powertrain components are covered for five years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first. The extended coverage applies to the Engine: all internal lubricated parts, cylinder block, cylinder heads, electrical fuel pump, electronic engine control unit, engine mounts, flywheel, injection pump, manifold (exhaust and intake), manifold bolts, oil pan, oil pump, seals and gaskets, thermostat, thermostat housing, timing chain cover, timing chain (gears or belt), turbocharger/supercharger unit, valve covers, water pump"

I read the entire warranty guide as well? Are you saying I missed something? Thank you for posting it. That was the first place I went back and read...

Service advisors words were (get ready for it...) "in spec via Ford standards". Right after those words he proceeded to tell me that if he replaces a part and Ford deems it "not faulty" he gets backcharged for the part.

 

[xlt03]

Oil cap is 100% in tact and tight. Nothing running down the engine at all. The dealer specifically stated that they couldn't identify where the oil was coming from (for the larger leak on the bottom) and that they put the dye in. It wasn't "showing it's ugly head" was the exact term used in conversation.

Like I said, I have turned a lot of wrenches in my day and I'm very OCD with my cars. There is absolutely no good answer to this other than they should be fixing the problems. I do not have an ESP on the vehicle. Everything I mentioned should be covered under the powertrain warranty.

I'm not even sure what to do at this point. They seem to have me hamstrung...

My reference on the 3/36 warranty was the bumper to bumper. The power train warranty as you mentioned should have applied.

I'm a bit confused why they wouldn't warranty anything since you have the power train warranty
From 2013 Ford Warranty Guide page 10:

Extended warranty coverage periods are available for certain
vehicle parts and conditions. Specifically,
(1) Your vehicle’s Powertrain components are covered for five years or
60,000 miles, whichever occurs first. The extended coverage applies to
the
Engine:
all internal lubricated parts, cylinder block, cylinder heads,
electrical fuel pump, electronic engine control unit, engine mounts,
flywheel, injection pump, manifold (exhaust and intake), manifold bolts,
oil pan, oil pump, seals and gaskets, thermostat, thermostat housing,
timing chain cover, timing chain (gears or belt),
turbocharger/supercharger unit, valve covers, water pump

I would PM the Ford Representative that checks in on the forum for some assistance. You can also call Ford Motor Company's Customer's Relations (phone number should be in owner's manual). Personally I would PM Ford Rep.

If this isn't going further with the dealership (existing or different dealership) and you yourself wanted to go on a search mission I would remove the engine appearance cover and give it the visual once over. Then clean up everything and use Brake Kleen to degrease. Then drive vehicle and see if any "new leaks" appear.

Disregard the prior paragraph. I just read you low oil remark. PM rep or call Customer Relations.

 

[bdginmo]

Unless I'm missing something it looks like it should be covered under the powertrain warranty. Based on posts I've seen in other forums you may have to file a case with Ford corporate though.

 

[bigdude2468]

* The Powertrain warranty covers seals, period.
* Sounds like they cannot pinpoint where the leak is coming from.
* Almost a quart in 5000 miles is not anything to be be concerned with. Engines tend to burn a little oil initally, don't worry about this.
* With all the leaks described there should be oil on the ground. If the oil "usage" is the result of the oil leaks the leaks are minuscule. A 2013 with 12,000 miles means that the quart in 5000 miles is almost two years.
*Lastly, oil leaks are very hard to identify when it starts to flow and gets thrown around the under carriage. I would clean up the oil residue as best I could and then check every week or so to try to find it.Oil leaks other than the PTU is not something we have seen on this forum. Very doubtful that multiple oil leaks are present on one engine when we seen very few in general.

 

[peterk9]

I read the entire warranty guide as well? Are you saying I missed something? Thank you for posting it. That was the first place I went back and read...

Service advisors words were (get ready for it...) "in spec via Ford standards". Right after those words he proceeded to tell me that if he replaces a part and Ford deems it "not faulty" he gets backcharged for the part.

I would suggest sending a PM to the FordService reps that monitor this Forum. Unfortunately I don't know if they are actually there as there has been no response from them since the previous group left on Jan. 31st. I sent a PM yesterday and again today to see what the status of the 'new' team is. Send a PM to FordService anyway just to have a record of it.
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/index.php?conversations/add&to=FordService

Peter

 

[Wibb]

* The Powertrain warranty covers seals, period.
* Sounds like they cannot pinpoint where the leak is coming from.
* Almost a quart in 5000 miles is not anything to be be concerned with. Engines tend to burn a little oil initally, don't worry about this.
* With all the leaks described there should be oil on the ground. If the oil "usage" is the result of the oil leaks the leaks are minuscule. A 2013 with 12,000 miles means that the quart in 5000 miles is almost two years.
*Lastly, oil leaks are very hard to identify when it starts to flow and gets thrown around the under carriage. I would clean up the oil residue as best I could and then check every week or so to try to find it.Oil leaks other than the PTU is not something we have seen on this forum. Very doubtful that multiple oil leaks are present on one engine when we seen very few in general.

The quart in 5000 is actually about 4500 and had been roughly a year since the last oil change. I'm estimating obviously, but it's very close.

I spoke with the salesman who is related to the owner today and possibly made some progress. They are still using the 'seepage' terminology which flags Ford as a non warranty item. You are correct, they cannot (nor could I) find the source of the larger leak. It is coming from somewhere in the bell housing. There isn't any visible sign running down from the rear main. It actually looks like it's in a small channel that is on the edge of the housing. I'll try to get some good pictures, it's tough when your in close proximity.

I am 100% sure that both turbos are leaking oil near the wheel. The inboard one is much worse than the outboard one.

I do not have any visible leakage on the ground. I agree with you about cleaning it and checking. I actually did this at the 9000 mile change and cleaned it up as I noticed it at that time, just not as bad. I was hoping it was just assembly lube on the bell housing.

 

[Wibb]

Well, it looks like Ford and my dealer are leaving me hang out to dry with my Explorer. They are holding steadfast that the oil leaks from the turbos are acceptable and that everything else is seepage. They also claim that a quart of oil missing in 5000 miles (on a vehicle with 12,000) is acceptable.

I am beyond frustrated with this entire ordeal. I have a conscious and do not want to offload this to another dealer or to another person but they have left with me no option but to be dishonest. The corporate greed is despicable. All of this because they don't want to take a chance on Ford charging them for a part they don't deem defective.

Shame on Ford! If anyone is in the St. Louis area I'd advise you to AVOID Pundmann Ford. They are a hometown dealer but their actions are disgraceful!

 

[peterk9]

I read the entire warranty guide as well? Are you saying I missed something? Thank you for posting it. That was the first place I went back and read...

Service advisors words were (get ready for it...) "in spec via Ford standards". Right after those words he proceeded to tell me that if he replaces a part and Ford deems it "not faulty" he gets backcharged for the part.

Usually for such repairs Ford must approve the warranty work first so I don't understand why the dealer should be "back charged" for work approved by Ford. Of course the problem is to get Ford to approve the work in the first place. If you are looking to "off load" the vehicle do it with your dealer who said that everything is "acceptable".

Peter

 

[Wibb]

Usually for such repairs Ford must approve the warranty work first so I don't understand why the dealer should be "back charged" for work approved by Ford. Of course the problem is to get Ford to approve the work in the first place. If you are looking to "off load" the vehicle do it with your dealer who said that everything is "acceptable".

Peter

They won't even attempt to get Ford to approve the work. They are telling me everything is within Ford 'specs and guidelines'. They have mentioned on several occasions that if they send the parts to Ford and they don't deem them defective they will be charged for the work. The service advisor's exact words to me were "you know the turbos are under pressure right? That means that oil leakage is normal".

I don't want to "off load" to anyone. However, I also am not just going to sit on a $47,000 vehicle that is leaking oil everywhere with 12,000 miles. I'm going to have nothing but problems in the near future.

 

[bigdude2468]

Take it to an reliable independent shop and ask them what they think. I am still somewhat baffled by the leaking oil everywhere comment yet no oil on the ground. Also the loss of oil, a quart in 5000 miles would be considered normal by every auto manufacturer. If in fact you are leaking a quart of oil every six months there would certainly be oil on the ground and smeared all over the engine. Sounds like you have some oil burning along with some seepage. Oil leaks are very uncommon on this board and have not been an issue with dealers refusing to repair.

 

[Wibb]

Take it to an reliable independent shop and ask them what they think. I am still somewhat baffled by the leaking oil everywhere comment yet no oil on the ground. Also the loss of oil, a quart in 5000 miles would be considered normal by every auto manufacturer. If in fact you are leaking a quart of oil every six months there would certainly be oil on the ground and smeared all over the engine. Sounds like you have some oil burning along with some seepage. Oil leaks are very uncommon on this board and have not been an issue with dealers refusing to repair.

I'm actually surprised no oil has been dripping. The oil has soaked the bell housing at the inspection plate. The oil leaks at the turbos aren't as bad, but I still wouldn't expect to see oil leaking from those at all. This thing is definitely burning oil as well.

I've been on the forum for a long time and lurk almost daily. I haven't seen any issues with the oil leaks either which is what's baffling to me. I'll try to upload some pics. I can't seem to do it from my phone and they aren't anywhere I can link to them.

 

[blwnsmoke]

First a quart of oil in 5,000 miles is not normal. Fords oil life system goes to about 10,000 miles and that would equate to 33% oil burning leaving only 4 quarts left.

My 11 with 109k burned 3/4 of a quart in my 10,500 mile oil change. 2 quarts in 10k, unacceptable.

@peterk9 Ford approves warranty work and does request parts to go back. They do inspect those parts and if deemed not defective, the dealer DOES get charged back the parts. The whole purpose is to prevent throwing parts at a vehicle and to keep a dealer honest.

 

[peterk9]

@peterk9 Ford approves warranty work and does request parts to go back. They do inspect those parts and if deemed not defective, the dealer DOES get charged back the parts. The whole purpose is to prevent throwing parts at a vehicle and to keep a dealer honest.

Thank you for that info.

 

[bigdude2468]

First a quart of oil in 5,000 miles is not normal. Fords oil life system goes to about 10,000 miles and that would equate to 33% oil burning leaving only 4 quarts left.

My 11 with 109k burned 3/4 of a quart in my 10,500 mile oil change. 2 quarts in 10k, unacceptable.

@peterk9 Ford approves warranty work and does request parts to go back. They do inspect those parts and if deemed not defective, the dealer DOES get charged back the parts. The whole purpose is to prevent throwing parts at a vehicle and to keep a dealer honest.