D'oh! More Problems for the Exploder...

[FlyAU]

Well, maybe I can get a good deal on a 2001 because no one will want to buy it? Wishful thinking?

Ford Explorer Has Higher Accident Rate
Reuters
Oct 9 2000 1:47AM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Ford Explorer has a higher rate of tire-related accidents than other sport utility vehicles, even when fitted with Goodyear tires and not the Firestone tires that have been linked to 101 deaths nationwide, The Washington Post reported on Monday, citing an analysis of national and Florida crash statistics.

The findings suggested that something about the Explorer may be contributing to those accidents, despite repeated statements by Ford Motor Co. (F.N) executives to the contrary, the Post said, quoting automotive analysts.

Firestone, owned by Japan's Bridgestone Corp. (5108.T), announced the recall of 6.5 million tires on Aug. 9. Most of the 15-inch ATX and Wilderness tires were fitted to light trucks and sport utility vehicles made by Ford.

Since the recall, Ford officials have insisted that the deadly accidents linked to the tires -- most of them involving Ford Explorers -- are a Firestone tire problem.

But safety advocates and plaintiff attorneys have said Ford shares blame for the tire problem because it recommended the tires be inflated to 26 pounds per square inch, lower than Firestone's recommendation, to make the Explorer less prone to roll over. Ford last month increased its inflation recommendation to 30 psi to match that of Firestone.

Ford Chief Executive Jacques Nasser conceded in an interview on CBS' ``60 Minutes'' on Sunday that SUVs, which have higher centers of gravity than cars, were more susceptible to rollover accidents when tires failed.

``If you do have a bad tire, then a sports utility vehicle is more prone to an accident, then, say, a low-slung sedan,'' he told CBS.

The Post said its analysis -- which covered fatal accidents nationally from 1997 to 1999 and a larger Florida database of fatal and nonfatal crashes for the same period -- showed that Explorers equipped with Goodyears had a higher rate of tire-related accidents than other SUVs in the national fatal accident records, although it said the 2,000 accidents involved were so few that the difference could be a statistical fluke.

It said an analysis of 25,000 fatal and nonfatal SUV accidents with 83 blown tires in Florida showed that tire blowouts in Goodyear-equipped Explorers contributed to crashes at rates more than double those of other SUVs.

Explorers with Firestone tires crashed four times as often as other SUVs after tire failures, the Post said.

Ford and Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co (GT.N) officials criticized the Post's analysis, saying the number of accidents examined was too small to be meaningful, that the databases do not always accurately identify vehicles, and that Explorers should not be compared with the entire universe of SUVs, which can range from two-seaters to behemoths.

Explorers were no more likely than other SUVs to have brake problems, worn tires or most other equipment failures that contributed to an accident in Florida, the paper said.

But it said no other make or model of SUV had a pattern of equipment failure related as strongly to accidents as the Explorer's tire blowouts. Using two different ways of measuring accident rates, the Explorer was either three or four times as likely as other SUVs to have a tire blowout contribute to an accident, the Post said.

Explorer's higher fatality rate in blowout accidents may be related to rollovers. In 5,870 single-vehicle accidents in Florida, the Explorer was 13 percent more likely to roll than other compact SUVs, against which Ford likes to compare the Explorer's rollover record, the Post said.

The Explorer was 53 percent more likely than other compact SUVs to roll over when an equipment failure such as faulty brakes, bald tires or blowouts caused an accident, it added.

James Fell, who retired last year as chief of research at the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, told the Post the findings were a ``first indicator that (Ford Explorers) may have a stability problem.''

 

[Alec]

So they're saying the Explorer is more prone to rolling over than other SUV's? Then how come two independent tests I saw (one featured on Dateline) Explained the Explorer was able to do slaloms faster than any other SUV they tested without going on two wheels? An Explorer at 35mph did the slalom perfectly, while a 4runner had to slow to 27 to avoid tipping. I guess it just depends where you get your data from.

 

[FlyAU]

That seems awful slow, Alec...Who was at the wheel? I mean, I can run the slalom perfectly at 35 mph...

For comparison, Motor Trend recently ran the Explorer Sport Trac through the 600' slalom at 54.8 mph. But I digress...

The way this article puts it, it would seem that the problem occurs once a blowout happens. So testing done under normal conditions wouldn't apply anyways.

 

[n2knee]

Another attempt to damage the Explorer's excellent reputation as one of the safest SUVs (perhaps the safest?). Any car especially SUVs can become dangerous when one of it's tires blows up at high speeds. It is just unfortunate that Ford had to equipp the Explorer with Firestones in an effort to cut production costs.

 

[Tom Wilk]

It looks to me like the news media is starting the quote the anti-SUV crowd.

As far as the slalom, I would imagine the speed depends on how far the cones are spaced. After some thought (imagine me doing that), I have to agree with FlyAu; the vehicle will handle drastically different with a blowout.

I'm wondering what effect the two different front suspension systems would have on how the vehicle handles. I've had two twin I-beam Rangers and they do steer differently than control-arm type suspensions. I'm also wondering if the smaller tires were a factor. I'm still waiting to see the stats on this situation. The numbers will tell a story if we could only see them.

 

[2001ExpSport]

Remember that it has the highest accident rates because it has probably the highest number of units on the road compared to any other SUV. I don't understand why poeple who own an Explorer look for info to shoot it down. Be proud to own and Explorer. Don't be a sheep and follw the media. Think for yourself.
As for the slalom, it's a frickin truck guys! C'mon! If a Ferrari couldn't do a slalom faster than 35, that would SUCK. If an SUV can't then who cares. If you are thinking that a slalom test is like swerving to get out of an accident then pay attention when you are driving.


"The findings suggested that something about the Explorer may be contributing to those accidents, despite repeated statements by Ford Motor Co. (F.N) executives to the contrary, the Post said, quoting automotive analysts."

What do they suggest?


"Ford Chief Executive Jacques Nasser conceded in an interview on CBS' ``60 Minutes'' on Sunday that SUVs, which have higher centers of gravity than cars, were more susceptible to rollover accidents when tires failed."

Do we really need to state the obvious over and over again?


"The Explorer was 53 percent more likely than other compact SUVs to roll over when an equipment failure such as faulty brakes, bald tires or blowouts caused an accident, it added."

Other COMPACT SUV's? The Explorer is a MID SIZED SUV.


In closing it is only obviously this was dead space used up to talk about Firestone tires again.

[Edited by 2001ExpSport on 10-09-2000 at 06:26 PM]

 

[n2knee]

I couldn't imagine how much bribe they received from the tree huggers.

 

[FlyAU]

Originally posted by n2knee
I couldn't imagine how much bribe they received from the tree huggers.

Betcha it's big...take a gander at the following:

Washington Post article regarding Goodyear Tires is false and misleading
October 10, 2000
Steve Blake, BlueOvalNews.com

BlueOvalNews.com is challenging a report that appeared on the front page of yesterday's Washington Post. The report called into question the performance of Goodyear tires that came as standard equipment on the Ford Explorer from 1995 through 1997 model years and also questioned the stability of the Ford Explorer.

The report MISTAKENLY utilizes tire BLOWOUT data from both the Florida Highway Patrol and a national database of accidents and injuries that occurred as a result of tire blowouts. Of course, blowouts can occur for a variety of reasons including most often, road hazards. Road hazards could be metal debris or other such items and they are the main cause for tire blowouts, especially in construction zones.

Goodyear spokesman Chuck Sinclair told BlueOvalNews in a phone interview, "The data the Post used from Florida was questionable, because there were no specifics on how the tires failed; an accident caused by a blowout from hitting road debris might be listed as tire related.

Sinclair went on to say, "Our concerns about `tire related' accidents reported by the Florida Highway Patrol is a broad category that is classified by blowouts and punctures. We used the same data that we supplied NHTSA and the Washington Post. The data shows that there were no accidents, no injuries, no tread separations, no lawsuits, no fatalities and no rollovers in Florida. Furthermore, in the entire universe, we've had nine claims in 2.9 million tires equipped on Ford Explorers. Four were tread separations and we only had to pay two, of which the largest amount was $500. However, once again there were no rollovers, no injuries and no fatalities. If there was anything to be blamed on our tire, we would've seen the same type of lawsuits that Firestone is currently experiencing."

BlueOvalNews has also discovered that during the period of time, the Washington Post utilized for the report, major road construction projects were underway in Florida, including a 21 mile stretch of I-75, which undoubtedly contributed to the amount of tire blowouts, because of road hazards.

It is obvious the feeding frenzy of the media regarding the Firestone tire issue has hit a new low. Specifically, tabloid type journalism. This latest attempt to obtain national recognition by a normally good source of news, confuses the public and does a disservice to those that have become injured or lost their lives as a result of defective and design flawed Firestone tires.

Following charts provided by Ford Motor Company.

Dead Link Removed

Dead Link Removed

 

[Tom Wilk]

Good find, Matt. I keep waiting for someone to publish a bunch of raw stats, rather than have the "mathematicians" in the news media do the analysis for me.

 

[Jim F]

Here's a thought I had last night seeing a new report about rollover potential. What about pickups with campers on. Gee these may have a problem making abrupt steering movements and not roll at least on their sides. Lets do something about them as well. Lets put outriggers on them to keep them from tipping. Or like was mentioned previously, Hello people it's a truck and should be driven like a truck. It sure seems that someone or some group is out to get the Explorer one way or the other. Probably due to it popularity.

Making the Explorer wider and lower is not a solution in my book. I used my Explorer this past weekend to haul a load of firewood 2 hour back to my house. I had a utility trailer in tow and if it wasn't for the height and capacity of the Explorer, I would not have been able to get out from where I had loaded the wood. The Explorer performed very well on the return trip and the Canadian made Wilderness AT's performed well. I presently have them at 33psi and the Sierra mountain roads were very manageable both going up and coming down.

I hope the insurance companys do not start listening to all of the reports flying around about the safety of the Explorer and start dramatically increasing our rates.

Ok, enough ranting on my part.

 

[Trckmagik]

I will solve this roll-over problem! I am emailing Ford to recomend that they just solve this whole mess by installing training wheels on all new model explorers. We may even get them to install these on our early model explorers at there exspense. You guys think this will work?

 

[Stephen]

Give it time guys and it will blow over. The media is famous for blowing this kind of thing out of proportion, especially a leftest publication like The Washington Post.

2001Exp, The Explorer is actually considered a compact SUV.

 

[2001ExpSport]

So then what is a Rav 4 and/or Escape?

 

[Stephen]

Subcompact

 

[Ru Dawg]

Originally posted by Stephen
Subcompact

Not from any type of real technical knowledge, but from what I've seen and read, I thought SUV's were either compact, mid-sized or full-sized.???

 

[2001ExpSport]

Ru Dawg, that's what I thought too...

Escape-Compact
Explorer-Mid sized
Expedition-Full sized
Excursion-Big Gulp

 

[Ru Dawg]

Originally posted by 2001ExpSport

Excursion-Big Gulp

LOL!!!
Another thing, who's classifying SUV's anyway? I mean, on my registration (PA) it's classified as a "car"???

 

[Ray Hutchinson]

Truckmagic:

Great Idea, training wheels! That way maybe all the totally CLUELESS Soccer moms, Dumbshit dudes, and the large number of other totally incompetent drivers I witness daily in Explorers, will be able to get back and forth from the grocery store and golf course without killing themselves and making the rest of us look bad. I guess its the mass marketing appeal and amazing popularity of our cars that attracts these drivers. A totally unscientific and seat of the pants observsation on my part is that the Explorer has a far larger share of nincompoops behind the wheel than some of the other SUV's, like heeps, that have more of a serious offroad image with the public.

 

[Seth]

I'm not sure if they counted this into the report but the ford explorer is the best selling SUV in America. That means that there are more of them out there than any other SUV so naturally it would have a higher accident rating in comparison to others. Think about it like this: for every one hundred explorers sold there is ten land cruisers sold. Now lets say that ten percent (just to make the numbers easy) roll over. Now that would mean 10 explorers rolled over while only 1 land cruiser rolled. The media uses information that like to "scare" people and to make headlines. They can make anything come out to be bad.

 

[TPLYNCH]

I was in Florida for a week in August... Tampa / Sarasota / Orlando. I was amazed at the amount of tire carcasses I saw on the highways. Seemed like every mile there was one. Even saw a car have a blowout in front of me. I don't know if its the roads or the climate, but Florida sure is hell on tires!